# A mistake in all Star Trek series and films after TOS that irritates me **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [October 30, 2026, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256 "2026-10-30T08:14:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/21 "2026-10-30T14:09:03Z")
It sounds more like a gripe of “I got used to one thing, dammit!” (Which, as an older person myself, I can respect) Even if it were true that military heraldry doesn’t change, so what? I’d expect a lot of conventions and norms to be different in the 23rd century. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/22 "2026-10-30T14:09:32Z")
The velour service uniforms often looked gold, but the sateen dress uniforms always looked green. I have heard three explanations for the switch. 1. Gene Roddenberry was sick and tired of red-shirt jokes. 2. Patrick Stewart and/or Jonathan Frakes looked better in red than in yellow. 3. The makeup for Commander Data looked better with yellow than with red. I have heard a post-hoc explanation that after Starfleet replaced the turtleneck-and-red-jacket uniform, people in the Federation associated red with the commanding officers, and Starfleet played along. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/23 "2026-10-30T14:10:10Z")
Wow, 19 posts in, and not a single mention of _why_ the colors got switched (behind the scenes) for TNG? Esp. given who was responsible… Yep, it was the late Patrick Stewart, whom in some early test footage simply didn’t look “commanding” in the yellow uniforms. In the ep. where he goes back in time and gets stabbed by some Nausicaans thanks to Q, he is seen in said yellow uni, with Q telling him that Lt. Picard never amounted much to anything, being unambitious and passive. YMMV but allegedly the uniform switch helped to cement that notion. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/24 "2026-10-30T14:11:02Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Engineering and expendables wore red. Back in the 1980’s, a Big Boss came to visit our site (programmers and big iron computers). He knew enough Star Trek to know that engineers wore red, and made some remark about us being red shirts. We of course thought he was announcing a layoff. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/25 "2026-10-30T14:12:33Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The Omega Glory A third season episode. By then, the velour had been replaced by some sort of synthetic fabric that didn’t shrink every time it was cleaned and need refitting. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/26 "2026-10-30T14:15:06Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Yep, it was the late Patrick Stewart, whom in some early test footage simply didn’t look “commanding” in the yellow uniforms. I did _not_ know that! Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/27 "2026-10-30T14:16:19Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > In the ep. where he goes back in time and gets stabbed by some Nausicaans thanks to Q, he is seen in said yellow uni, with Q telling him that Lt. Picard never amounted much to anything, being unambitious and passive Pretty sure Picard the Meek had a blue uniform in the alt-timeline? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/28 "2026-10-30T14:31:18Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Yep, it was the late Patrick Stewart, whom in some early test footage simply didn’t look “commanding” in the yellow uniforms. In the ep. where he goes back in time and gets stabbed by some Nausicaans thanks to Q, he is seen in said yellow uni, with Q telling him that Lt. Picard never amounted much to anything, being unambitious and passive. YMMV but allegedly the uniform switch helped to cement that notion. Yes and I would speculate that the slight color muting contributed to that. That is to say: that, apart from command maybe, the colors of the uniforms were quite primary in TOS. Then, to modernize it, they used soften colors in TNG. I think the slight burgundy in TNG has a regal tinge to it, so I can see how picard in yellow standing next to a security officer in the (new) red would look the wrong way round. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/29 "2026-10-30T14:31:50Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > I think _Incubus_ is a good movie. I liked it. But The Shat’s putting the accent on the wrong syllable while speaking Esperanto is annoying. There was at least one book written during the series’ original run on how to write for Star Trek. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/30 "2026-10-30T14:43:55Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > They wore green, They wore [chartreuse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartreuse_(color)), a shade maddeningly in-between green and yellow. Anyway, Starfleet briefly went to the weird whitish colors of TMP, and then to the red uniforms that evidently were the standard until TNG era. So the restoration of color coding need not have followed the previous tradition. > [@terentii](#): > > By then, the velour had been replaced by some sort of synthetic fabric that didn’t shrink every time it was cleaned and need refitting. Ah, that explains the length of Uhura’s skirts. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/31 "2026-10-30T14:54:36Z")
According to the script, 118 years went by between the original Constellation class Enterprise (Kirk) and the Enterprise D (Picard). A lot happens, even in the military, in 118 years. Heck, soldiers used to wear brightly colored uniforms and commanders were easy to identity. After realizing that the former made for easy targets and latter made for taking out the command structure, the military drastically changed its protocols. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/32 "2026-10-30T15:02:18Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > Expendables are an official branch of the military? I think they’re called, “Privates”. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/33 "2026-10-30T15:09:26Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > According to the script, 118 years went by between the original Constellation class Enterprise (Kirk) and the Enterprise D (Picard). Not quite. > Though Captain Kirk and his crew’s adventures continued into the 2290s during the _Star Trek_ film series, _The Original Series_ actually concluded during the in-universe year of 2269. The conclusion of [Captain Kirk’s first five-year mission](https://screenrant.com/star-trek-enterprise-five-year-mission-how-many/) wasn’t shown in the short-lived original program, but the year was firmly established within the canon nevertheless. > > _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ began in the year 2264 during the events of season 1, episode 1, “Encounter at Farpoint,” which made it exactly 95 years after Captain Kirk’s original mission concluded. [https://screenrant.com/star-trek-how-long-tng-after-tos/](https://screenrant.com/star-trek-how-long-tng-after-tos/) ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/34 "2026-10-30T15:13:04Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > According to the script, 118 years went by between the original Constellation class Enterprise (Kirk) and the Enterprise D (Picard). But wasn’t the first offender ST: TMP barely a decade after TOS? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/35 "2026-10-30T15:22:17Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > > [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#): > > > > Expendables are an official branch of the military? > > I think they’re called, “Privates”. LOL That’s another issue the Star Trek series has not been clear on. What ranks are serving on the Enterprise? The various series have generally focused on the top ranking officers; Captains and Commanders. But even in Lower Decks, we were seeing a bunch of ensigns, who were portrayed as the lowest ranking people on the ship. So where were the enlisted men? I think the only two characters who were enlisted men were Miles O’Brien and Janice Rand. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/36 "2026-10-30T15:22:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The TOS movie red uniforms were the only ones that actually looked like a military uniform. They remain the best looking uniforms. The Motion Picture remain the worst. > [@Monty](#): > > As for Starfleet being military, the entire franchise seems to have an issue with are they or are they not. Ostensibly they were explorers, but they were armed to the teeth and quite bloodthirsty on occasion. Not through the entirety of the franchise. The idea that “Starfleet is not a military organization” really didn’t rear its head until The Next Generation. In TOS, Kirk referred to himself as a soldier, he was subject to a courts martial in an episode titled “Court Martial,” and there are numerous episodes where the _Enterprise_ and other Starfleet vessels respond to threats as a military would. Roddenberry seemed to have a change of heart regarding Starfleet as a military organization in the 1970s. He was quite upset about how militaristic The Wrath of Khan was and a lot of people believe he tried to sabotage the movie by leaking Spock’s death. It was TNG that went hard with Starfleet not being military. In “Peak Performance,” an episode where the Enterprise was to participate in a war training exercise, Riker thinks it’s a waste of time because that’s not what Starfleet is all about. Nevermind that the training exercise was in response to the Enterprise’s encounter with the Borg a few episodes back. An encounter where the Enterprise was outmatched and they lost about a score of their crewman. But, no, Riker didn’t think it was important to come up with strategies to use against the Borg. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/37 "2026-10-30T15:28:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think the only two characters who were enlisted men were Miles O’Brien and Janice Rand. Well, and this is just a theory, the Enterprise was NOT a military Star Ship like a Klingon Bird of Prey, it was a ship of exploration and peace first and foremost. I believe most of the “crew” were, for all practical purposes, civilians working on a Star Ship. The bridge crew, security people, engineers, weapons specialist, etc were the true heart of Starfleet’s crew. Ranks below ensign were unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/38 "2026-10-30T15:43:19Z")
In some early book about the making of Star Trek (possibly it was in fact Whitfield’s _The Making of Star Trek_), I recall it being mentioned that everyone aboard the Enterprise was an officer. It may have been justified by saying something along the lines that they were all qualified astronauts, and astronauts are always officers. Some strange justification like that. On the other hand, TOS did have those random guys here and there who were just called “Crewman.” Maybe that’s a catch-all enlisted rank, sort of like the Air Force has ranks like “Airman.” ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/39 "2026-10-30T15:44:30Z")
Did they ever mention by name every single person working on the ship? Maybe there were 10x as many enlisted as officers. Or maybe not, because automation was good enough. I suppose it is left to our imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2026, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256/40 "2026-10-30T15:51:55Z")
No, but now you have me thinking about how, when the Enterprise was actually involved in a serious military engagement and, if they had time, they would separate the saucer section from the “Battle Bridge”. I’m thinking the Star Fleet officers who were the true, hardcore crew were the ones who manned the Battle Bridge, warp engines, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mistake-in-all-star-trek-series-and-films-after-tos-that-irritates-me/1034256.md?page=3)