# A moment of silence for the athletes killed during "the Munich Massacre" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529 "2012-07-27T03:53:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/41 "2012-07-27T17:55:51Z")
I’m torn about this. On the one hand, I basically agree with the sentiment expressed by Shodan (which happens approximately once every 4 years, ironically enough). On the other hand, even though I think that a moment of silence is by just about any reasonable standard a right and proper thing to do, the fact is that in the political climate of the modern world, an enormous number of people are going to react in a way that is non-reasonable. If, as seems likely, going forward with this started causing threatened boycotts, etc., and ended up being a huge disruption to the games, then what was really accomplished? ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/42 "2012-07-27T18:18:47Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > …On the other hand, even though I think that a moment of silence is by just about any reasonable standard a right and proper thing to do, the fact is that in the political climate of the modern world, an enormous number of people are going to react in a way that is non-reasonable. Could a non-reasonable reaction be expected no matter what side of the issue the IOC came down on? In which case, why not do the classy thing? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/43 "2012-07-27T18:43:38Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I’m torn about this. On the one hand, I basically agree with the sentiment expressed by Shodan (which happens approximately once every 4 years, ironically enough). On the other hand, even though I think that a moment of silence is by just about any reasonable standard a right and proper thing to do, the fact is that in the political climate of the modern world, an enormous number of people are going to react in a way that is non-reasonable. > > If, as seems likely, going forward with this started causing threatened boycotts, etc., and ended up being a huge disruption to the games, then what was really accomplished? In my view, we/the IOC/whoever should go ahead and do what is right even if it causes bozos to go berserk. Because changing your behavior to appease bozos gives them too much power. I feel about this somewhat like I did about the mosque/Islamic center near Ground Zero in NYC. The 9/11 terrorists attacked us in part because we have religious freedom, and that pisses them off. Much of the resistance to the Islamic center near Ground Zero came from a different group of people, who were also pissed off because we have religious freedom. My view is, if you decide that building an Islamic center, or having a moment of silence for the victims, is the right thing to do, then you go ahead and do it. Because it sends a real clear message to the bozos and bigots and assholes and terrorists that says “Fuck you. We think this is right, so we are gonna do it. We are not going to be afraid of you.” If the Palestinians pull their athletes because we have a moment of silence for the victims of terrorism just because those victims were Jewish, well tough tschuchas. We can have a perfectly good Olympics with people who have a more civilized view. We proved that in 1984, and in every Olympics where we didn’t let South Africa compete. Maybe it would have meant more if we kicked Uganda out of the Olympics at the same time, but hey, nobody’s perfect. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/44 "2012-07-27T18:52:29Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Could a non-reasonable reaction be expected no matter what side of the issue the IOC came down on? In which case, why not do the classy thing? Perhaps they are afraid that they will have a bomb accident. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/45 "2012-07-27T20:29:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If the Palestinians pull their athletes because we have a moment of silence for the victims of terrorism just because those victims were Jewish, well tough tschuchas. We can have a perfectly good Olympics with people who have a more civilized view. We proved that in 1984, and in every Olympics where we didn’t let South Africa compete. The problem is there are some that don’t see the Israelis as civilised and see their current actions as akin to what South Africa was doing. I’m torn by it. It seems like the right thing to do but I hate politics being drawn into sport. Hell, I get annoyed if I see anyone in military uniform. Even bands. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/46 "2012-07-27T20:32:18Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > The problem is there are some that don’t see the Israelis as civilised and see their current actions as akin to what South Africa was doing. > > I’m torn by it. It seems like the right thing to do but I hate politics being drawn into sport. Hell, I get annoyed if I see anyone in military uniform. Even bands. And as an example, just minutes after I wrote that members of the British military have appeared in the London Olympics opening ceremony carrying a flag. I hate that. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/47 "2012-07-27T20:50:28Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > The problem is there are some that don’t see the Israelis as civilised and see their current actions as akin to what South Africa was doing. Therefore their athletes should have been murdered? That isn’t what they did with South Africa. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/48 "2012-07-27T21:02:19Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > The problem is there are some that don’t see the Israelis as civilised That was the same train of thought in 1972. edit: The only other remembrance was during the Atlanta summer games. Is the location telling or did the IOC feel soft that year? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/49 "2012-07-27T21:17:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Therefore their athletes should have been murdered? That isn’t what they did with South Africa. > > Regards, > Shodan I’m just saying what the views of others would be. I’ve made my position clear. Having said that, it would have been easy to have their photos in that “those that couldn’t be here with us” sequence. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/50 "2012-07-27T21:19:15Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > That was the same train of thought in 1972. And others would say the israeli government has been seeing all Palestinians the same way for decades. It is a circular argument that’ll get us nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/51 "2012-07-27T21:23:30Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > The problem is there are some that don’t see the Israelis as civilised and see their current actions as akin to what South Africa was doing. > > I’m torn by it. It seems like the right thing to do but I hate politics being drawn into sport. Hell, I get annoyed if I see anyone in military uniform. Even bands. So then, to be very clear, you were outraged when the Olympic organizers in Atlanta held a moment of silence in rememberance for the two people killed by the 1996 bombing? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/52 "2012-07-27T21:26:30Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So then, to be very clear, you were outraged when the Olympic organizers in Atlanta held a moment of silence in rememberance for the two people killed by the 1996 bombing? I don’t remember it. I don’t usually watch opening ceremonies, so I may have never seen it. I am only watching this one as I am British and hence have been following a lot of discussion regarding it in the British press and so wanted to see the final effort. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/53 "2012-07-27T21:27:07Z")
Saying that Israelis (and by that, you only mean the Jewish ones) aren’t civilized is akin to saying that Palestinians aren’t civilized enough to have their own country. The IOC has a long history of bigoted and anti-Semitic leaders. I don’t know why **Ibn Warraq** put it all in quotes, but the Munich Massacre was horrible beyond horrible. This just wasn’t a shootout. I suppose if your loved one had been castrated and had their member shoved in their mouth and put on display for the world to see, you’d have a harder time understanding how ‘other people think’ Israelis are. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/54 "2012-07-27T21:28:48Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > And others would say the israeli government has been seeing all Palestinians the same way for decades. It is a circular argument that’ll get us nowhere. How is that a circular argument? It was a terrorist attack. Athletes - who had nothing to do with any of it - were kidnapped, tortured, and murdered. When an Israeli group does the same to a Palestinian one at an Olympic event, I’ll be the first to stand in silence. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/55 "2012-07-27T21:30:40Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Saying that Israelis (and by that, you only mean the Jewish ones) aren’t civilized is akin to saying that Palestinians aren’t civilized enough to have their own country. > > The IOC has a long history of bigoted and anti-Semitic leaders. I don’t know why **Ibn Warraq** put it all in quotes, but the Munich Massacre was horrible beyond horrible. This just wasn’t a shootout. I suppose if your loved one had been castrated and had their member shoved in their mouth and put on display for the world to see, you’d have a harder time understanding how ‘other people think’ Israelis are. Quit the “you” please. I have made my views clear and they were not in line with what you are accusing me of here. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/56 "2012-07-27T21:31:43Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > How is that a circular argument? It was a terrorist attack. Athletes - who had nothing to do with any of it - were kidnapped, tortured, and murdered. Because both the Palestinians and Israelis have killed many, many innocents on both sides. People aren’t suddenly “more innocent” because they are athletes. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/57 "2012-07-27T21:36:01Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Because both the Palestinians and Israelis have killed many, many innocents on both sides. People aren’t suddenly “more innocent” because they are athletes. Either you condemn the terrorists or you don’t. There’s no need for ‘even-handedness’ here. It’s been 40 years and the response from the IOC is pretty disgusting. Some of these families have been lobbying for decades. edit: Athletes aren’t on a ‘side’. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/58 "2012-07-27T21:39:47Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Either you condemn the terrorists or you don’t. There’s no need for ‘even-handedness’ here. It’s been 40 years and the response from the IOC is pretty disgusting. Some of these families have been lobbying for decades. > > edit: Athletes aren’t on a ‘side’. We were discussing whether there should be a minute’s silence. The IOC’s refusal to condemn is another discussion and, frankly, another thread. Innocents by definition aren’t on a ‘side’ and many, many innocents have died from both Palestine and Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/59 "2012-07-27T21:46:27Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I don’t remember it. I don’t usually watch opening ceremonies, so I may have never seen it. I am only watching this one as I am British and hence have been following a lot of discussion regarding it in the British press and so wanted to see the final effort. True, but now that you’ve found out about it you are outraged that they brought politics into the Olympics by having a moment of silence for those killed in the bombing at that Olympics. Similarly, I assume you were disgusted by the moment of silence at the Winter Olympics honoring those killed during the 911 bombing. If not, your position is quite hypocritical and intellectually inconsistent. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/60 "2012-07-27T21:54:20Z")
Innocent deaths are not more significant because they happened at the Olympics. Also, it is only in US that Israelis are held in the highest regard possible no matter what. The rest of the world, including non-Arabs, find Israel assholish at the least and outright war criminals at worst. This question is only a surprise to Americans. How about loosening up restrictions on Palestinians during Olympic games (if not during Ramadan)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529.md?page=4)