# A moment of silence for the athletes killed during "the Munich Massacre" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529 "2012-07-27T03:53:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/81 "2012-07-28T05:06:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > There [_was_ a moment of silence earlier in the week](http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/07/23/3101466/london-ceremony-remembers-slain-israeli-athletes) as part of the Olympic Truce. > > I don’t really see what the big deal is. It’s not an Israeli/Palestinian thing; it’s a “are we supposed to remember the dead athletes at _every_ Olympics?” thing. It was a tragedy. It was also 40 years ago. Are we supposed to have a moment of silence for the Romani during every Olympiad in a year ending in 6? What’s the harm? The Olympics is about competition among the best of a people defined by national borders. This sort of atheltic competition has an innocence to it. I think its purpose is to see that all nations can compete and live together. Politics has no place in it. Further, loving your country and wanting to compete for it does not mean you are a representative of the nation’s policies. From that perspective, any athlete who suffers in the name of inserting politics into the Olympics should be remembered for their sacrifice, but only in the confines of the Olympics. I can’t imagine how awful it must have felt to be denied the chance to compete because the nation you happened to be born into has brutal policies. Far more unimaginable still is the suffering the Israeli athletes went through to compete for their country. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/82 "2012-07-28T05:12:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yes, you’re correct, Jacques Rogge deliberately refused to have a public moment of silence for the Israeli athletes but merely a private one deliberately designed not to ruffle anyone’s delicate sensibilities. A “private” moment of silence? It was at the Olympic Truce ceremony, in front of the world’s press and most of the Olympic delegations. It was about as private as the front row of a concert. > [@](#): > > Agreed, what would the big deal have been with having a moment of silence for the athletes murdered for the crime of being Jewish. Nothing. Which is _why they had one_. > [@](#): > > Considering how many people have freely pointed out that had the IOC decided to have a moment of silence quite a few people would have been pissed off, this comment is laughably naive and shows rather dramatic ignorance of the Middle East. > > Moreover Jibril Rajoub, the head of the Palestinian Olympic Committee who congratulated Jacque Rogge for rejecting having a moment of silence and declared doing so would constitute “racism” would piss himself laughing at the idea that “It’s not an Israeli/Palestinian thing.” A Palestinian says it’s an Israeli/Palestinian thing. No shit. Mr. Rajoub probably thinks the sun rises in the east to make a political statement about Palestine. Let me know when he’s chairman of the IOC. > [@](#): > > Again, you’re making arguments that weren’t made by the people who rejected having a moment of silence so it’s quite silly to make. No, but you’re making unsupported assertions. Let’s see some evidence that they were rejected. > [@](#): > > Moreover, I’m not aware of any other instance of Olympic athletes who were kidnapped and murdered during the Olympics so your comment is rather disingenuous. > > If some Romani athletes had been kidnapped and murdered for being Romani during the Olympics you’d have a point, but none have been so you don’t. I fail to see the distinction between people who were kidnapped and murdered because they were at the Olympics and people who were kidnapped and murdered because of the Olympics. > [@](#): > > Once again, next time you wish to make an argument against having a moment of silence I recommend looking at the statements by the people who actually denied it since they gave far less silly and far more coherent and well thought-out reasons than you gave. Well, since their reasons are so coherent and well thought out, your question has presumably been answered and the thread can be closed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/83 "2012-07-28T05:14:19Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > What’s the harm? Well, “harm” is a bit of a strong word, but the opening ceremony is supposed to be a happy event. I take it we are all in agreement that a memorial to the dead is unlikely to be happy. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/84 "2012-07-28T05:20:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, “harm” is a bit of a strong word, but the opening ceremony is supposed to be a happy event. I take it we are all in agreement that a memorial to the dead is unlikely to be happy. Ah. yes… [not a place for a memorial to the dead](http://www.slate.com/blogs/five_ring_circus/2012/07/27/opening_ceremony_moment_of_silence_there_were_two_pauses_for_reflection_on_friday_night_neither_was_for_the_israeli_athletes_murdered_in_1972_.html), indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/85 "2012-07-28T05:22:38Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Ah. yes… [not a place for a memorial to the dead](http://www.slate.com/blogs/five_ring_circus/2012/07/27/opening_ceremony_moment_of_silence_there_were_two_pauses_for_reflection_on_friday_night_neither_was_for_the_israeli_athletes_murdered_in_1972_.html), indeed. Fair enough. They didn’t mention either of those during NBC’s coverage. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/86 "2012-07-28T05:25:55Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The Israelis asked the IOC to hold a moment of silence during the upcoming Olympics in remembrance of those dead athletes and the IOC refused saying they didn’t want to take sides. My problem is with the reason for the refusal rather than the refusal itself. When a nation’s - any nation’s - entire Olympic team is murdered at the Olympics there really aren’t sides to take. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/87 "2012-07-28T05:47:37Z")
[http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/london/story/2012-07-27/London-Olympics-Israelis-Munich-moment-of-silence/56545088/1](http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/london/story/2012-07-27/London-Olympics-Israelis-Munich-moment-of-silence/56545088/1) After saying there would be no moment of silence to honor the 11 Israeli athletes and coaches who were killed at the 1972 Munich Olympics, the IOC permitted a video tribute to the 52 people who were killed in the suicide bombings in the London transit system the day after the city won the Games in 2005. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/88 "2012-07-28T05:49:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > A Palestinian says it’s an Israeli/Palestinian thing. No shit. Mr. Rajoub probably thinks the sun rises in the east to make a political statement about Palestine. Let me know when he’s chairman of the IOC. Please don’t make racist assertions. Not only is it disgusting and reprehensible, but making them doesn’t make you look good. > [@](#): > > Nothing. Which is why they had one. Bullshit. As was pointed out, there were moments of silence for a number of people, but none for the Jewish athletes murdered for being Jews. > [@](#): > > Let’s see some evidence that they were rejected. Er… the President of the IOC publicly rejected them. For your sake, I hope you’ve never ridiculed people who believed the Holocaust was a hoax or that global warming was a fraud. If you have then you just made yourself look extremely stupid. > [@](#): > > Well, since their reasons are so coherent and well thought out, your question has presumably been answered and the thread can be closed. I didn’t say their reasons were “well thought out” I said they were more coherent and well thought out than yours. Sorry for not being more clear. I thought what I was saying was obvious, but apparently some missed the point I was making. > [@](#): > > I fail to see the distinction between people who were kidnapped and murdered because they were at the Olympics and people who were kidnapped and murdered because of the Olympics. What are you talking about? I’m not being rude or disrespectful, but I genuinely don’t know what you’re talking about. For the record, if at the 1972 Olympics a number of Romani athletes were murdered by bigots who thought of the Romani as vermin I would get upset at the idea of a memorial being held for them forty years later, but apparently you do. Please explain why. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/89 "2012-07-28T05:52:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/london/story/2012-07-27/London-Olympics-Israelis-Munich-moment-of-silence/56545088/1](http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/london/story/2012-07-27/London-Olympics-Israelis-Munich-moment-of-silence/56545088/1) > > After saying there would be no moment of silence to honor the 11 Israeli athletes and coaches who were killed at the 1972 Munich Olympics, the IOC permitted a video tribute to the 52 people who were killed in the suicide bombings in the London transit system the day after the city won the Games in 2005. Presumably _amanset_ and others will now shit themselves in anger over the mixing of politics and sport. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/90 "2012-07-28T06:54:06Z")
I was at a Shabbat dinner tonight for young adults. Earlier, I had suggested we have a moment of silence and to my surprise, the leaders did that. There were about 100 of us in attendance. I know other synagogues in Denver did the same thing…as did shuls and dinner tables across the country/world. There was a huge [Minute for Munich](http://www.haaretz.com/news/sports/london-2012/olympics-news/more-than-20-000-londoners-hold-moment-of-silence-for-munich-1.454111) in London yesterday. So while the IOC snubbed the Israeli widows (again), thanks to media, it ended up being a much bigger thing than in years past…I think they won this PR war. The fact that the IOC had two moments of silence for others will only make the story go on longer. The point was well served. More people know about the Munich massacre and care now than they did four years ago. ---
**Author:** ![kob09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@kob09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kob09)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/91 "2012-07-28T07:08:01Z")
there are terrorist acts every day somewhere in the world… why should we give that particular act ore importance than others? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/92 "2012-07-28T07:11:31Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How is it not a “blatant snub”. Because there are a total of three memorial events. A _blatant_ snub would have had zero. > [@](#): > > Rogge has all but admitted he didn’t do this publicly so as not to antagonize those for whom the Yehudi are animals to be exterminated. I tend to agree, and said as much in my first post. > [@](#): > > As I said before, let’s not try and pretend that we’d be having this conversation if the athletes who’d been murdered had been anything but Jews. Eh… I don’t think it’s so much the identities of the victims as much as it is just trying to avoid predictably inflaming tensions. > [@](#): > > For example, had they been British, Spanish, or Turks a commemoration would have been a no brainer. Probably. But an equivalent conflict (including Olympic massacre) between two peoples doesn’t currently exist. I could try to draw some hypothetical parallel between Turkey and Armenians, but it still wouldn’t be quite the same. Like I said, I don’t like it either, but I can understand it. Pulling off an Olympics with a spirit of cooperation, minimal controversy, and no incidents of violence is their priority. That some perhaps unfortunate compromises have to be struck in order to make that happen should come as a surprise to no one. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/93 "2012-07-28T07:39:07Z")
Make up your mind. Either… > [@voltaire](#): > > Eh… **I don’t think it’s so much the identities of the victims** as much as it is just trying to avoid predictably inflaming tensions. Or you agree. > [@](#): > > Probably. There was a moment of silence for the terror victims of 2005. ANY terrorist attack is political. So how the hell is that okay?! edit: also interesting that it wasn’t shown in the US broadcast. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/94 "2012-07-28T08:10:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So then you were upset when in 1996, there was a moment of silence to remember the two people who in the Olympic bombing in Atlanta? > > You felt that set a bad precedent and mixed politics with the Olympics? > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So then, to be very clear, you were outraged when the Olympic organizers in Atlanta held a moment of silence in rememberance for the two people killed by the 1996 bombing? I too wasn’t aware that this happened. So, of course, I turned to Wiki. [QUOTE=Wiki] Sydney 2000 In accordance with the Olympic Charter which governs the Closing Ceremony, IOC President Juan Antonio Samaranch called on the youth of the world to assemble in Sydney, in four years, for the next Summer Olympics. In his speech, he denounced the Centennial Olympic Park bombing stating that terrorism cannot stop the Olympic spirit. Samaranch asked for a moment of silence to remember the victims of the bombing, **as well as the 11 Israeli athletes of the Munich massacre during the 1972 Summer Olympics.** He said that those tragedies will never be forgotten and said: _No act of terrorism has ever destroyed the Olympic movement and none ever will. More than ever we are fully committed to building a better, more peaceful world in which forms of terrorism are eradicated._ [/quote] (bolding mine) So, it turns out it has already been done. ---
**Author:** ![Mansour\_Haddad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Mansour\_Haddad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mansour_Haddad)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/95 "2012-07-28T10:36:35Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What do you mean Israeli/Palestinian/Muslim issue? > > What exactly did Islam have to do with what happened. > > Besides, what makes you think the guerillas were all Muslims? > > Leila Khaled, George Habash and countless others certainly weren’t. > > Hamas and Islamic Jihad didn’t become forces to be reckoned till about 15-20 years later. . If the situation that led to the attack had changed in these last 40 years, the world would be more sympathetic to such requests. Instead we’ve had 40 more years of continued ethnic cleansing and the most brutal occupation since World War II. These calls for a “moment of silence” are nothing but an attempt by Israel and its supporters to increase both international support for its policies in occupied Palestine and to demonize the Palestinian people and label them “terrorist”, connecting them with events that happened before many were even born. This effort to demonize Palestinians is why Jibril Rajoub calls this effort “racist”. It is yet another way for the Israelis to define not just Palestinians, but all Arabs, as “other” and drive them from their homes. It is one more justification for so-called “Jewish settlements”, each of which amounts to a tiny invasion…a land grab to be added to some future hypothetical Israel with permanent borders. Or as Bibi Netanyahu calls it, “creating facts on the ground”. I am against any “moment of silence” for specific acts by specific people against specific targets. I would support a moment of silence for all victims of terrorism and war, including, for example, the victims of the violent and homicidal IDF boarding of the MV Mavi Marmara just two years ago. Their names: Ibrahim Bilgen Ali HaydarBengi Cevdet Kiliçlar Çetin Topçuoglu Necdet Yildirim Fahri Yaldiz Cengiz Songür Cengiz Akyüz Furkan Dogan Terror has no religion. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/96 "2012-07-28T11:24:08Z")
“A symbol for all that is great and noble in mankind,” not a venue for whining, or opening old wounds, or expressing one’s views. Win an Oscar and you can talk all you want. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/97 "2012-07-28T12:56:55Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > But there’s a big difference… religious freedom is an absolutely fundamental core American value. It’s something we should not compromise, ever, and if we do compromise it, we’ve lost something crucial about what it meant to be the USA. > > However, “having moments of silence to honor tragedies on their 40th anniversary” would certainly be a nice and polite thing for the IOC to do, but it’s in no way a core inalienable value built into the very bedrock of the IOC. I don’t agree that opposition to the murder of innocents by terrorists is a less important value than the decision on where to build an Islamic center. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/98 "2012-07-28T13:00:35Z")
Yes there has already been a moment of silence for the Munich athletes at the closing ceremony at Atlanta. I don’t have any major objection to a second moment of silence but I don’t think there is any urgent need either. It seems a non-issue either way. The venom coming from some of those who want the moment of silence [isn’t pretty though](http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/23/usa-munich-romney-olympics-idINDEE86M0EZ20120723). > [@](#): > > Deborah Lipstadt, professor of modern Jewish history at Emory University in Atlanta, said the IOC’s refusal to call for a minute of silence was “pure and simple unabashed antisemitism,” although she said it was prejudice of a “mild” - rather than violent - nature. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/99 "2012-07-28T13:01:17Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > Make up your mind. Either… > > Or you agree. > > There was a moment of silence for the terror victims of 2005. ANY terrorist attack is political. So how the hell is that okay?! > > edit: also interesting that it wasn’t shown in the US broadcast. In the interests of accuracy they weren’t shown because there was no “moment of silence” at any point in ceremony. There were three points in the show (designed and produced by Danny Boyle - not the IOC) where there was reference to remembrance. In the first one the music slowed and became sombre to commemorate the dead of both world wars “and other conflicts”, later there was a video piece with music and pictures of friends and relatives of the audience who had died (ticket holders were invited to bring along photos), and finally a dance piece called “Mortality” by Akram Khan accompanied by Emeli Sandé singing _Abide With Me_. The last piece was linked to the 7/7 London bombings by the TV commentators but I don’t think Danny Boyle or Akram Khan did. So no moment of silence, just solemn passages in the general upbeat show. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529/100 "2012-07-28T13:03:23Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Because both the Palestinians and Israelis have killed many, many innocents on both sides. People aren’t suddenly “more innocent” because they are athletes. I don’t understand - you seem to be saying that the athletes who were murdered were not innocent. How did going to the Olympics make them guilty of something? Or is it just because they are Jewish? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moment-of-silence-for-the-athletes-killed-during-the-munich-massacre/629529.md?page=6)