# A moral question inspired by the film The dark crystal( spoiler warning) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 30, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794 "2020-06-30T14:56:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/21 "2020-07-01T03:06:05Z")
I’m guessing none of you has seen _[Jupiter Ascending](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Ascending)_. A key plot point in the movie involves harvesting life essence so that the elite can stay young and healthy. I think outright harvesting is immoral, but if I could shorten my life by a few years and help my child? I would do that. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/22 "2020-07-01T03:15:20Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I’m guessing none of you has seen _[Jupiter Ascending](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Ascending)_ . I’ve seen it. It is based on a true story that occurred a decade ago in Romania, not Russia. I’m kidding, of course. For me, this type of movies are as forgettable as the popcorn I eat during the show. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/23 "2020-07-01T03:16:28Z")
Lots of times, the popcorn is far more memorable. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/24 "2020-07-01T03:18:48Z")
Jesus, I was just considering editing that part so that the reply should not sound too harsh and then your answer popped up. Discourse gets scary sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/25 "2020-07-01T12:35:10Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > Discourse gets scary sometimes. So does discourse. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/26 "2020-07-01T15:18:24Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > It depends on the effect on the life essence donor. If it is like donating blood (a pretty close approximation to life essence for that matter) where the donor feels a bit lethargic afterwards but recovers and is otherwise fine then I wouldn’t have a problem with it. If it kills the donor then that’s a problem. If it has no long term effects but can only be “donated” by babies who can’t give consent then that would be a bit grey. [shudder] No, an unconsenting infant would be evil, not grey. If one were to volunteer onesself, that would be fine, voluntolding a convicted criminal/political prisoner [like apparently China takes organs from the prisoner population. As an AB Negative, I would not trust myself to stay alive and unharvested if I ran afoul of the law in China and ended up in jail…] Now if one was on death row, and then decided to donate themselves to someone specific who paid for it to the family [running afoul of our no profit from crime thing] that would be different. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/27 "2020-07-01T16:14:54Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Now if one was on death row, and then decided to donate themselves to someone specific who paid for it to the family [running afoul of our no profit from crime thing] that would be different. I can only imagine the amount of PAC and lobbyist money ensuring that the death penalty be instituted in every possible jurisdiction, and how low the bar would be for crimes to be eligible for the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/28 "2020-07-01T17:20:37Z")
And when you run out of the ones who are obviously detrimental to society, but still want to live forever, do you keep upping the crimes to which “draining” is a punishment? ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/29 "2020-07-02T00:29:24Z")
What if you tweak the idea to remove the one-to-one aspect? Every person has this mysterious ‘essence’ that can be used to heal every disease. The good part is that the properly harvested and processed essence from a single person is enough to cure ONE HUNDRED people. The bad part is that the harvesting necessarily kills the donee. Would we as a society be willing to ‘harvest’ the people on death row if we can save one hundred lives per dead prisoner? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/30 "2020-07-02T01:26:27Z")
Is it a humane way to die? If the death row inmates are going to be killed anyway, you may as well do it in a way that saves other lives. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/31 "2020-07-02T01:46:38Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Would we as a society be willing to ‘harvest’ the people on death row if we can save one hundred lives per dead prisoner? Of course we would. We as a society are willing to do a great many things that we shouldn’t do. Your question would be better if it was “SHOULD we as a society…?” And the answer to that is no - it’s far too slippery of a slope in putting people on death row that don’t belong there. However, I think if we’re set on finding sources of essence to harvest, the terminally ill would probably be our best bet. And that can become pretty slippery when we start determining what “terminal” or even “ill” means. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/32 "2020-07-02T20:20:26Z")
Sure, and we, as a society, would also make sure that there are enough people on death row to keep all the “law abiding” healthy. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/33 "2020-07-02T21:40:18Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > However, I think if we’re set on finding sources of essence to harvest, the terminally ill would probably be our best bet. And that can become pretty slippery when we start determining what “terminal” or even “ill” means. Don’t we already deal with these issues with organ transplants? I don’t see widespread problems with people being terminated for their organs. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2020, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/34 "2020-07-03T01:29:12Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > What if you tweak the idea to remove the one-to-one aspect? > > Every person has this mysterious ‘essence’ that can be used to heal every disease. The good part is that the properly harvested and processed essence from a single person is enough to cure ONE HUNDRED people. Not that death is involved, but otherwise that’s basically the premise (indeed, the whole story) behind _The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas_. Which I am sure was a fine story in its day, but is presently only considered great because people have been told it’s great, and if you were to try and submit something like that to a sci-fi/fantasy magazine today, you would receive a form rejection after about six months of going unread in the slush pile and thirty seconds or less of cursory review. Unless of course you’re famous, in which case you can write whatever you want, get it published, and have it be called brilliant. Sorry, what were we talking about again? Oh, right. This kind of moral quandary, in one form or another, is neither new nor relegated to fiction. As I said up thread, this draining of the life force from many so a few can prosper could be taken as a metaphor for many aspects of human society going back to pre-history and up until the present (and most certainly going into the foreseeable future at least). Unfettered free market capitalism, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![lordfreeza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d9b06d/32.png) [@lordfreeza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lordfreeza)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/35 "2020-07-06T18:14:55Z")
I was thinking more along the lines of intelligent beings of higher intelligence such as other human beings. You do make an excellent point however that we are in fact draining a type of life from other beings. With that said not many people thinks its and ethical dilemma to eat a nice tasty cheese burger. I think what your talking about is more physical nutrients though. I assumed in the film and tv show that what was being drained was their spirits or souls not just the physical body. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum\_45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum_45/32/3385_2.png) [@eburacum\_45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum_45)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/36 "2020-07-07T08:55:57Z")
Count me as one who thinks it is an ethical dilemma to eat cheese burgers. If we have no problem eating animals, why do we have a problem eating humans? Is it because animals are too ‘dumb’ to complain? If the Skeksis from the Dark Drystal need some kind of ‘life-force’ to support their own lives, maybe they should domesticate animals of some sort and drain _them_, instead of bothering the Gelfings and other sentient races. Or they could just go vegan and drain the life-force of plants… ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/37 "2020-07-07T16:15:15Z")
> [@eburacum\_45](#): > > Count me as one who thinks it is an ethical dilemma to eat cheese burgers. If we have no problem eating animals, why do we have a problem eating humans? Is it because animals are too ‘dumb’ to complain? We have a problem with humans being eaten because the slippery slope from there to _me_ being eaten is pretty darn short. Persons willing to eat sentient nonhumans are pretty dangerous too, because maybe to them eating people is eating people and we’re all people. From there the less sentient/personlike the thing being et is, the longer the slope to eating humans is and the better it is. A person isn’t likely to start eating humans just because they’re eating cows. > [@eburacum\_45](#): > > If the Skeksis from the Dark Drystal need some kind of ‘life-force’ to support their own lives, maybe they should domesticate animals of some sort and drain _them_ , instead of bothering the Gelfings and other sentient races. Or they could just go vegan and drain the life-force of plants… If we are to presume that the universe presented is a logical one, the approach you describe would be easier as well, since crops don’t run away from you. Which suggests that using crops wouldn’t work, otherwise they’d be using them. Presumably their process needs a minimum amount of intelligence or ‘soul’ to be present to work properly. That, or they’re just evil. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/38 "2020-07-07T18:26:46Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I’m guessing none of you has seen _[Jupiter Ascending](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter_Ascending)_. A key plot point in the movie involves harvesting life essence so that the elite can stay young and healthy. I think outright harvesting is immoral, but if I could shorten my life by a few years and help my child? I would do that. I wonder how much of the plot was borrowed from Larry Niven’s stories about transplantation and ‘organlegging?’ Of course, Niven probably got part of the idea from someone else too. Anyway, in that world, transplants were easy, error-free, and the key to eternal life. The flip side of that was that damned near every crime had the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/39 "2020-07-09T00:37:21Z")
I was curious about death row inmates in the US donating organs. Apparently it is not specifically illegal but there are a number of practical problems that makes it next to impossible to achieve. There have not yet been any transplants approved for someone given the death sentence. One of the main issues is that the organs need to be harvested while they are still viable and that makes it difficult to define the cause of death as being from the lethal injection rather than the removal of the organs. If the cause of death is considered to be from the organ removal, that puts the surgeon in a tricky spot. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum\_45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum_45/32/3385_2.png) [@eburacum\_45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum_45)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794/40 "2020-07-09T17:07:47Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > > [@eburacum\_45](#): > > > > Count me as one who thinks it is an ethical dilemma to eat cheese burgers. If we have no problem eating animals, why do we have a problem eating humans? Is it because animals are too ‘dumb’ to complain? > > We have a problem with humans being eaten because the slippery slope from there to _me_ being eaten is pretty darn short. Persons willing to eat sentient nonhumans are pretty dangerous too, because maybe to them eating people is eating people and we’re all people. From there the less sentient/personlike the thing being et is, the longer the slope to eating humans is and the better it is. A person isn’t likely to start eating humans just because they’re eating cows. > > > [@eburacum\_45](#): > > > > If the Skeksis from the Dark Drystal need some kind of ‘life-force’ to support their own lives, maybe they should domesticate animals of some sort and drain _them_ , instead of bothering the Gelfings and other sentient races. Or they could just go vegan and drain the life-force of plants… > > If we are to presume that the universe presented is a logical one, the approach you describe would be easier as well, since crops don’t run away from you. Which suggests that using crops wouldn’t work, otherwise they’d be using them. Presumably their process needs a minimum amount of intelligence or ‘soul’ to be present to work properly. > That, or they’re just evil. What would be evil is if they could easily sustain themselves by harvesting the ‘life-energy’ of crops, and they just hadn’t tried it. A bit like meat-eating, really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-moral-question-inspired-by-the-film-the-dark-crystal-spoiler-warning/913794.md?page=3)