# A Movie That Might Change Your Life . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2001, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822 "2001-02-02T04:11:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/221 "2001-02-15T15:00:57Z")
Lord & Lady help me, I’m about to defend FoGgy. Btw, **FriendofGod** , I think the nickname of Foggie, from your screen-name here is cool. Hope you’re not offended, it’s not meant in malice. Anyway, **Flymaster** wrote: \*\*Your ISP blocks pages containing “colorful language?” Talk about sticking your head in the sand and screaming “I can’t hear you!”\*\* And **Ben** added: **FoG, do yourself a big favor and get an ISP that treats you like an adult.** **Foggie** is probably using one of the ISP set up by the So. Baptist for screening out objectional material. All considered, it’s a great idea. They object to certain material on the Net, rather than try to close down the “offending” site, they set up an ISP that blocks such material, but only for them, not anyone else. You have to admit, it’s a pretty good solution to problem. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/222 "2001-02-15T19:12:19Z")
super\_head wrote: > [@](#): > > Wow, it’s harder to sneak bad words into a post than I thought. I’ll quit while I’m ahead. Shouldn’t that read, “I’ll quit while I’m aHEAD”? ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/223 "2001-02-15T19:22:16Z")
David B wrote: > [@](#): > > Where have we seens this mass of Christians portrayed on TV & movies as buffoons, swindlers, and immoral (as opposed to, say, everybody else)? I hate to have to defend **FriendofGod** here, BUT – In many Stephen King movies, the Fundamentalist Christians are the bad guys. (e.g. Carrie’s mother) ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/224 "2001-02-15T19:27:29Z")
To follow up on **David’s** observation about Sunday’s episode of _The Practice_, on both _Ed_ and _The West Wing_ last night, religious faith in general–and Christianity in particular–were portrayed in an overtly positive light. And _The West Wing’s_ one of them damn socialistic shows, too! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Ptahlis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a8b319/32.png) [@Ptahlis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ptahlis)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/225 "2001-02-15T19:33:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > \*\ ***Foggie** is probably using one of the ISP set up by the So. Baptist for screening out objectional material. All considered, it’s a great idea. They object to certain material on the Net, rather than try to close down the “offending” site, they set up an ISP that blocks such material, but only for them, not anyone else. You have to admit, it’s a pretty good solution to problem. \*\* Well, it’s a better solution than trying to shut down the sites you don’t like, but it is far less ideal than just ignoring them altogether. There _is_ something infantile about asking someone else to decide what you can and can’t look at. It’s not as if FoG has opened a site and thought “Ick. I’ll block that in case some link takes me there in the future.” He has settled for someone else’s ideas of what is fit for him to view. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/226 "2001-02-15T19:41:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > > I hate to have to defend **FriendofGod** here, BUT – > > In many Stephen King movies, the Fundamentalist Christians are the bad guys. (e.g. Carrie’s mother) Yeah, but Steve can get away with it because he’s a deeply religious man himself - albeit in a decidedly unconventional fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/227 "2001-02-15T20:36:36Z")
Somebody didn’t reply to my message… * * * Yer pal, [Satan](http://www.members.tripod.com/jmspoofe/sdmb/satan.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/228 "2001-02-15T20:45:12Z")
Flea temptation? Insects is taboo! ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2001, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/229 "2001-02-15T23:37:59Z")
Ptahlis wrote: > [@](#): > > There _is_ something infantile about asking someone else to decide what you can and can’t look at. I _knew_ there was a reason I started the [Religion Is Infantile!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=58707) thread… ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/230 "2001-02-16T09:25:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, it’s a better solution than trying to shut down the sites you don’t like, but it is far less ideal than just ignoring them altogether. There is something infantile about asking someone else to decide what you can and can’t look at. It’s not as if FoG has opened a site and thought “Ick. I’ll block that in case some link takes me there in the future.” He has settled for someone else’s ideas of what is fit for him to view. Maybe, but c’mon. I suspect that he and his ISP would agree in about 99% of all cases. Foggy doesn’t want to be tempted to look at sites that offend his moral code. That he’s willing to essentially hire someone to avoid this particular pitfall doesn’t seem unreasonable. I think we should cut the guy some slack on this particular point. ---
**Author:** ![FriendofGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee7513/32.png) [@FriendofGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendofGod)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/231 "2001-02-16T10:12:20Z")
Just a quick FYI, I do plan to get on here sometime this weekend and try to catch up on questions or comments aimed my way. Satan if I actually missed one of yours I’ll go back and find it. Remember it might be in the bottom of page 4 which doesnt show up on my screen. Thanks for those of you who see where I’m coming from on the porn-screening thing. Someone said it best, it’s much easier to ‘hire someone’ to do the work, and indeed in 99% of the cases my ISP and I agree. ---
**Author:** ![FriendofGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee7513/32.png) [@FriendofGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriendofGod)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/232 "2001-02-16T19:26:59Z")
Okay I’m going to try to catch up to some responses here. I’d like to give one or two general comments on “sexual sin in media” and the depiction of Christians in media. On the first topic, I did find an MSNBC article about the increase in sex in the media: > **[MSNBC News - Breaking News and News Today | Latest News](https://www.msnbc.com/)** > > MSNBC breaking news and the latest news for today. Get daily news from local news reporters and world news updates with live audio & video from our team. See it’s not just the crazed fundamentalists who see this :). I will say this, I find research like this a monumental waste of time and money, simply because the conclusion they drew is so darned _obvious_ anyway that they didn’t need to do the study! But I thought you guys would like to see the story. As for Christianity in media … irony of ironies, last night on ER they portrayed Christianity in a positive light! I was actually quite impressed. Dr. Kovach looks like he’s practically about to get saved. The dying priest said some excellent things on the show last night (‘faith comes and goes, but that’s _us_, not Him. _He’s_ always there’). It was all about Kovach facing the hatred he has for those who killed his family, and realizing that despite what happened, God is still very real and very loving. Of course this somewhat confirms my earlier contention that _if_ Christians are portrayed positively, it’s _always_ in a Catholic context. But hey I’ll take what I can get ;). I hope the tide is turning. The LA Law season with the BAC woman was to Christians what Ellen’s final season was to gays. Hopefully the beginning of a turnaround. Some of you in this thread have mentioned other exceptions which is encouraging. There are little positive signs everywhere. Okay, on to your posts: **Ben** , you said among other things: > [@](#): > > Of course there are countless stories about Christians being persecuted, because FC’s get off on the idea of martyrdom. So wait, I don’t get this: you’re saying the reason Christians get martyred is because we _want_ to get martyred? I’ve had conversations with probably hundreds of Christians over the past few decades on this very topic. Not one of us _wants_ to go through persecution, torture, and death for our faith. What we all hang on to is this: we believe that God gives you grace for _today_, not tomorrow. I’m not facing death and persecution today, so I don’t really have the grace to face it. But if it were to come today, I believe there would be grace available to me from God to face it courageously. > [@](#): > > Where is the real persecution in America? Well, it’s not an either-or thing Ben. Homosexuals, prostitutes, born again Christians … there are many groups who face persecution here in the good ole USA, although nothing like in some countries. People in other countries laugh when we talk about persecution. Some of my friends in college _literally_ lived in countries where, if you publicly declared your faith, you could be jailed. We don’t face anything at all like that yet. > [@](#): > > FoG, can you provide even a shred of evidence for any incident of persecution of FC’s that is even half as bad as the incidents I named? Read _Foxe’s Book of Martyrs_. It’s been around for centuries and is basically a book full of heroes. **Cervaise** said: > [@](#): > > When you say evil atheists want to destroy Christianity, and you are asked to name one of them, any one, and you can’t, impartial observers have no choice but to conclude that they don’t exist and dismiss your argument. Read _The Humanist Manifesto_. Written in 1973, it lays out very specifically a plan for humanity. If you read it, you will see how very successful humanists have been in implementing their agenda. And yes, Christians are fighting back and winning in some cases. **Satan** said, in response to a Bible quote about not adding to the Bible: > [@](#): > > I sure hope that scripture was from the New Testament… Yup, Revelation. Is this the question you wanted me to get to? More later … ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/233 "2001-02-16T19:49:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course this somewhat confirms my earlier contention that _if_ Christians are portrayed positively, it’s _always_ in a Catholic context. …Which confirms **my** earlier suspicion that you completely ignore many posts that provide evidence which contradicts your world-view. Several of us have cited shows –_The Practice_, _The West Wing_, _Ed_–which have portrayed non-Catholic Christians in an extremely positive light. Blinders much? ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/234 "2001-02-16T20:20:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FriendofGod \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Of course there are countless stories about Christians being persecuted, because FC’s get off on the idea of martyrdom. > > So wait, I don’t get this: you’re saying the reason Christians get martyred is because we _want_ to get martyred?\*\* No, he’s saying that you take secondhand stories about people supposedly not being allowed to read the Bible at work and elevate them to the status of Justin Friggin’ Martyr. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Where is the real persecution in America? > > Well, it’s not an either-or thing Ben. Homosexuals, prostitutes, born again Christians … there are many groups who face persecution here in the good ole USA, although nothing like in some countries. Let’s see . . . one of your cronies just got elected President, so I can see how tough it is for the poor, poor, persecuted Christians. Wow, how do you face each day? The horrible things you go through. :rolleyes: Incidentally, that you would dare cast your lot with the homosexuals that your kind denounce from the pulpit every day of every year sickens me. Your hero, Dr. Dobson, never misses a chance to tell us all how perverted and lost homosexuals are. It just goes to show how low you will sink in your disingenuity. The Fundies and the gays, fighting hand in hand against persecution in the U.S. of A.? Give me a break. OTOH, I see some of your other cronies just got their church confiscated by Federal agents because they owed $6 million in back taxes. Apparently, they refused to withhold FICA taxes from employee payroll checks because they claimed to be subject to God’s laws and not man’s laws. > [@](#): > > We don’t face anything at all like that yet. And you never will, thanks to a little thing called the First Amendment, which protects you from me as much as it protects me from you. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/235 "2001-02-16T21:01:29Z")
> [@](#): > > OTOH, I see some of your other cronies just got their church confiscated by Federal agents because they owed $6 million in back taxes. Apparently, they refused to withhold FICA taxes from employee payroll checks because they claimed to be subject to God’s laws and not man’s laws. That’s really funny, since the subject of paying taxes was covered pretty specifically by The Man Himself (rendering unto Caesar, etc.). FOG, I wanted to address your response to the hypothetical from the last page, but I would like to do so in a new thread. Look for it. Dr. J ---
**Author:** ![dil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f04885/32.png) [@dil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dil)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/236 "2001-02-16T21:01:29Z")
I am a Christian. I saw the movie. It sucked. The lighting/directing/cinematography was straight out of the 70’s. I couldn’t believe I was watching a new movie. Most of the acting was OK. The actors playing Rayford, Chloe, and Bruce were halfway decent. Not top notch, but passable. Kirk Cameron and Chelsea Noble were gawd-awful. The guy playing the freaked out conspiracy theorist was horrible too. The plot? Well… same as the book, pretty much. The only thing that interests me about the LB series is how they translate Biblical prophecy into modern-day occurrences. Not that I agree with the majority of it, but I find it interesting, at least. The rest of the story is boring. The characters are shallow and have no chemistry, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/237 "2001-02-16T22:32:05Z")
Please check out this story: [http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/december95/zellner.html](http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/december95/zellner.html) Do you think this is isolated? I’ll bet things such as this happen a hell of a lot more than a Christian is persecuted - certainly at the level this professor was - in this country. I have never seen a case of a Christian being held hostage by institutional discrimination such as this in this country. Ever. Feel free to enlighten me if I am uninformed. The only stories I hear about how “persecuted” Christians are in this country is when someone or some organization (such as the ACLU, gay activists or Planned Parenthood to use just a few examples) tries to avoid similar institutional discrimination that breaches into the right to be free of religion in certain aspects of their lives, and when the “liberal media” and “secular humanist-owned courts” actually have the audacity to AGREE that prayer in schools is unconstitutional or other similar issues, **that** is what is decried as “persecution of Christians.” Bullsh\*t. _[Self-censorship so FoGgy’s gestapo ISP allows him to read this.-Satan]_ This guy and his family were persecuted. And if similar treatment happened to a Christian in the USA, you don’t think that everyone would go nuts about it? Save the martyrdom for people who deserve it. You’re no martyr, Cassie from Columbine didn’t say yes, and people who believe in Jesus decided to make this guy’s life HELL because he didn’t. These are facts. I realize that you’re not too strong when it comes to backing your beliefs up with them, but there you go. Feel free to continue to live in a world where they don’t matter. I don’t plan on joining you there, however. * * * Yer pal, [Satan](http://www.members.tripod.com/jmspoofe/sdmb/satan.jpg) \*\* [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2001, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/238 "2001-02-16T23:39:02Z")
FriendofGod wrote: > [@](#): > > **Ben** , you said among other things: > > > [@](#): > > > > FoG, can you provide even a shred of evidence for any incident of persecution of FC’s that is even half as bad as the incidents I named? > > Read _Foxe’s Book of Martyrs_. It’s been around for centuries and is basically a book full of heroes. It’s been around for **centuries**?! Then it cannot possibly be about _Fundamentalist_ Christians. Fundamentalism is a relatively recent phenomenon (1-2 centuries old, max.). If _Foxe’s Book of Martyrs_ has been around for centuries, it probably deals with the martyrdom of (gasp!) Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2001, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/239 "2001-02-17T00:12:03Z")
First of all, I’d like to apologize for that little spelling mistake in my last post and the fallout that it caused. I had to use an internet connection at school for 3 years before my parents finally got our computer connection, and the schoolss connection was patrolled by Cyberproxy, which was a major annoyance, but that’s another rant for another time. [http://us.imdb.com/CommentsShow?0190524](http://us.imdb.com/CommentsShow?0190524) Anyway, here’s the link to the user comments page for the movie on IMDB. As you can see, it’s about evenly divided between fundies and people who saw the film for what it was. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2001, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822/240 "2001-02-17T03:51:10Z")
Foxe’s Book of Martyrs (originally published in about 1583) was a book by a British Protestant. Protestant review (favorable): [http://www.u-turn.net/6-1/foxe.html](http://www.u-turn.net/6-1/foxe.html) Catholic review (objective) 😉 [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02681a.htm](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02681a.htm) A copy of the book is available below; it appears to have a 19th century update. [http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/](http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-movie-that-might-change-your-life/52822.md?page=13)