# A murder mystery plot twist I've never seen (possibly open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 6, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691 "2023-11-06T14:21:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/41 "2023-11-06T19:10:09Z")
No names are springing to mind, but in my reading of vintage mysteries I’ve stumbled across that solution a few times. When Christie’s book came out, many people hated hated hated the twist because they thought she cheated. That’s probably a major reason why few deliberately copied her. Other writers have twisted the idea in interesting ways. Percevil Wilde wrote several books in which five narrators give their accounts of what happened in the murder, the twist being that one of them is the murderer and cleverly talks around their involvement without ever actually lying. Kenneth Fearing, who wrote _The Big Clock_, also wrote all his mysteries that way, with even more narrators. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/42 "2023-11-06T19:44:22Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Other writers have twisted the idea in interesting ways. Percevil Wilde wrote several books in which five narrators give their accounts of what happened in the murder, the twist being that one of them is the murderer and cleverly talks around their involvement without ever actually lying. You just brought to mind the movie Beyond A Reasonable Doubt, where the idea is that a guy and his boss set out to show that the courts shouldn’t be convicting someone for murder on purely circumstantial evidence. And so the guy frames _himself_ (with purely circumstantial evidence that doesn’t really prove anything but looks pretty bad) for a recent murder, and gets found guilty — and then, right as his boss is going to clear his name by producing the proof about this circumstantial evidence, said boss and said proof go up in flames. So he now does all he can to prove he isn’t the murderer, with the advantage of already knowing how to truthfully explain away each piece of purely circumstantial evidence he manufactured — and with the advantage of knowing all about the real crime, which, as it happens, he committed. ---
**Author:** ![iamatractorboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iamatractorboy/32/21261_2.png) [@iamatractorboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamatractorboy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/43 "2023-11-06T20:28:56Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Not the detective himself, but the detective’s boss, running the department and directing the investigation. > > [Minority Report](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_Report_(film)) And in a very similar fashion (in fact the scene in which the big baddy hears a fellow cop’s theory about what is going on is basically ripped off in your film and then kills said fellow cop), _LA Confidential_ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/44 "2023-11-06T21:47:48Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > So he now does all he can to prove he isn’t the murderer, with the advantage of already knowing how to truthfully explain away each piece of purely circumstantial evidence he manufactured — and with the advantage of knowing all about the real crime, which, as it happens, he committed. So an inside-out version of the OJ Simpson crimes. First the cops unsuccessfully frame an actually guilty OJ. Then OJ writes a disturbingly accurate tell-all book about how somebody other than him would have done it. In his opinion at least. Sometimes the real world is as wacky as the best of fiction. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/45 "2023-11-06T21:58:53Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Unless you mean > > “The Murder of Roger Ackroyd” where the narrator is the culprit, and also a recent friend of Poirot during his abortive retirement? Hardly a sidekick, though. No, that’s the book I was thinking of. I guess ‘side kick’ was too strong a title for the interaction between them, but it certainly seemed way more friendly than your usual detective/potential suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/46 "2023-11-06T22:23:44Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > There must be a SciFi story where the murderer is the detective, who mind-wiped himself or herself after committing the murders, and gradually discovers that he is the killer after investigating the crimes. Zaphod Beeblebrox cauterized his own brain so he wouldn’t remember why he wanted to go to Magrathea. But he also left his initials there so his future self could figure out who had done it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/47 "2023-11-06T22:39:43Z")
No murder, but there is a mystery, in Now You See It. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/48 "2023-11-06T22:41:07Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Not the detective himself, but the detective’s boss, running the department and directing the investigation See also Witness (1985) - although that gets revealed about halfway though the film. And Off Limits (1987) - every mid-80s action movie cliche smashed together into a buddy cops in Vietnam flick There was also the variation of the judge who is trying the murder case turning out to be the killer who also framed the defendent Suspect (1987) Man, the mid-80s really leaned into the “person-you’d-least-expect-is-the-guilty-one” trope a lot. There was also the inverse of the OPs scenario, where the detective investigating the murder ends up being arrested for it because everything thinks he did it and was botching the investigation on purpose, although he was innocent - Presumed Innocent ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/49 "2023-11-06T23:01:26Z")
Not a murder mystery, but… [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/PcZclmuRwWM/hqdefault.jpg "Sesame Street - Sherlock Hemlock looks for Ernies sandwich") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcZclmuRwWM) ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/50 "2023-11-06T23:50:23Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > There must be a SciFi story where the murderer is the detective, who mind-wiped himself or herself after committing the murders, and gradually discovers that he is the killer after investigating the crimes. _Angel Heart_, tho more horror/fantasy. {ok spoiling the title since that’s the custom in this thread} ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/51 "2023-11-06T23:57:00Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > There is an episode of Columbo where the dogs did it (no spoiler since of course Columbo starts with the killers), but of course they were under orders from a human murderer. A closer COLUMBO match might be A FRIEND IN DEED, where the police commissioner who tells Columbo which sort of suspects to zero in on — by explaining how the evidence sure seems to him to point to an experienced burglar who got interrupted and then opted to silence a potential witness — decides, _hey, as soon as Columbo can plausibly get a warrant for me and mine to search the residence of this or that suspect, that’s where I’ll plant some evidence before showing up with the investigators I’ll personally order around: as the guy who can say stuff like Oh Make Sure To Check Under The Sink After You Look Behind The Stove._ ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/52 "2023-11-07T00:08:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > A closer COLUMBO match might be I was responding to Gyrate’s question about whether there was a story in which the dog did it. But I agree that your choice is a better fit for the OP. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/53 "2023-11-07T01:05:32Z")
Baroness Orczy’s The Old Man in the Corner. Orczy created a detective story archetype of the armchair detective . The book is a series of short stories, where the final one The old man – who never gave a name, turns out to be the killer and disappears. Ellery Queen’s anthology _101 Years’ Entertainment_ has a story that fits the criteria perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/54 "2023-11-07T01:10:13Z")
They ALL did it! But if you wanna know who killed Mr. Boddy, _I_ did: in the hall, with the revolver. Okay, Chief, take 'em away; I’m gonna go home and sleep with my wife! ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/55 "2023-11-07T02:14:20Z")
Two more from _101 Years’ Entertainment_: “The Eleventh Juror” by Vincent Starrett, where the aforementioned juror turns out to be the killer. “The Hands of Mr. Ottermole” by Thomas Burke is close: the killer is a cop investigating stranglings. It was made into an episode of _Alfred Hitchcock Presents._ In movies, there’s the Joe E. Brown drama _Painted Faces_, which is clearly influenced by “The Eleventh Juror.” ---
**Author:** ![RollOutTheBarrel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rolloutthebarrel/32/1649_2.png) [@RollOutTheBarrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RollOutTheBarrel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/56 "2023-11-07T02:29:14Z")
One episode of Murder, She Wrote comes to mind: Season 3, episode 3, “Unfinished Business”. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/57 "2023-11-07T04:19:58Z")
That’s the outcome of a 2022 historical mystery movie set a couple decades before the civil war The Pale Blue Eye However, while the identity of the murderer is a surprise to both viewers _and_ a very famous historical figure who is assisting in solving the case, the murderer knows that they did it unlike a few suggestions in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/58 "2023-11-07T04:26:28Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Memento sort of has this plot IIRC. That was the first thing I thought of. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/59 "2023-11-07T04:41:54Z")
There’s Newbery-winning YA mystery, which if you ask me, is entertaining enough for adults to enjoy, called _The Westing Game_, in which there is an apparent murder. The heirs to the murdered man’s considerable fortune are asked to investigate it, ostensibly because the police don’t realize it’s a murder. The murdered man isn’t really dead-- he’s assumed a new identity, and is _among the investigating heirs._ The real game is to figure out which one-- and first of all, to figure out what the real game is. Nobody does, so he fakes the death of _that_ identity as well; there is then another identity to be uncovered. Only one heir realizes at that point what the real game is, and, realizing that, what the next identity must be, walks into his office, and wins. ---
**Author:** ![iamatractorboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iamatractorboy/32/21261_2.png) [@iamatractorboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamatractorboy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691/60 "2023-11-07T06:30:31Z")
> [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](#): > > There was also the inverse of the OPs scenario, where the detective investigating the murder ends up being arrested for it because everything thinks he did it and was botching the investigation on purpose, although he was innocent - Presumed Innocent Seriously underrated film, that one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-mystery-plot-twist-ive-never-seen-possibly-open-spoilers/992691.md?page=4)