# A "Murder of Crows" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 8, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075 "2004-02-08T03:07:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@Johnny88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny88)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/1 "2004-02-08T03:07:47Z")
There are flocks of birds, and herds of cattle; is there a “murder” of crows? The question comes about because the music group “Counting Crows” has a song title named “A murder of one”. Said title is oxy-moronic as is “An army of one”. This could go on, but I feel someone has a clear answer. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/2 "2004-02-08T03:12:37Z")
Yes. It’s in the dictionary. Look under “murder”. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/3 "2004-02-08T03:12:56Z")
[Yes, there is a phrase “a murder of crows.”](http://pub122.ezboard.com/fwordoriginsorgfrm4.showMessage?topicID=300.topic) ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/4 "2004-02-08T03:13:49Z")
I’ve always heard that. Murder of crows, pride of lions, troop of monkeys, crash of rhinoceri, gaggle or skein of geese, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/5 "2004-02-08T03:17:21Z")
> [@Achernar](#): > > Yes. It’s in the dictionary. Look under “murder”. Well, it’s not in _all_ dictionaries. Neither [Merriam-Webster online](http://m-w.com/) not my 1987 MW hardcover contains the “flock of crows” definition. But they are listing definitions from mainly an American perspective. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/6 "2004-02-08T03:19:23Z")
There’s even a so-so movie called A Murder of Crows [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133985/](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133985/) ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/7 "2004-02-08T03:23:47Z")
> [@Earl Snake-Hips Tucker](#): > > Well, it’s not in _all_ dictionaries. Neither [Merriam-Webster online](http://m-w.com/) not my 1987 MW hardcover contains the “flock of crows” definition. Huh. You’re right. I apologize. I only checked AHD, which is what I usually use. It isn’t often that something like this will only be in one or the other, but it does happen; I should have checked. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/8 "2004-02-08T03:32:04Z")
Ahhhh! Makes the [title](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00018D5CQ/qid=1076210964//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl15/002-3157949-2352842?v=glance&s=music&n=507846) of this new album make A LOT more sense. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![aerodave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f08c70/32.png) [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/9 "2004-02-08T04:10:17Z")
I’ll put one foot in Cafe Society territory and say that the new Incubus CD is pretty good. Like their last one, it took a few listens to grow on me. The name is one that requires just a second of thought aobut its significance. To begin this post back to relevance, I heard the local rock station DJ trying to explain to his morning-show sidekick what the “murder” thing was about. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/10 "2004-02-08T04:19:19Z")
A search for {murder crows} or {exultation larks} will pull up a tapestry of threads on this subject. [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176124&highlight=murder+crows), for example, comes to the general conclusion that most of these collective noun names are cutesy diversions that are never really used by the general public. And what’s the definition of a word no one uses? Let’s face it, when you see a group of birds, you’ll say ‘flock’ and not ‘exultation,’ ‘murder,’ ‘slaughter,’ or ‘parliament.’ (OK, maybe you’ll say ‘gaggle.’) Peace. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/11 "2004-02-08T04:27:43Z")
We’re saying it right now. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/12 "2004-02-08T04:46:58Z")
Do a google search with the exact phrase “ **collective nouns** ”. Here is one website I found: [http://rinkworks.com/words/collective.shtml](http://rinkworks.com/words/collective.shtml) There are MANY others. Some websites include totally contrived words such as a ‘ponder of philosophers’. Here’s 3 more collective nouns: flypaper, wastebasket and vaccuum cleaner. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/13 "2004-02-09T15:43:39Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > A search for {murder crows} or {exultation larks} will pull up a tapestry of threads on this subject. > > [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=176124&highlight=murder+crows), for example, comes to the general conclusion that most of these collective noun names are cutesy diversions that are never really used by the general public. And what’s the definition of a word no one uses? > > Let’s face it, when you see a group of birds, you’ll say ‘flock’ and not ‘exultation,’ ‘murder,’ ‘slaughter,’ or ‘parliament.’ (OK, maybe you’ll say ‘gaggle.’) That’s _exaltation_ of larks, which was also the name of a book on the subject. Some of these collective nouns are authentic, although archaic, and were formerly in general use by common people. Others, especially the more fanciful ones, were coined either in the Middle Ages as hunting terms by the aristocracy, or in the Victorian era. One of these ‘fanciful’ terms that survives in common use is “a pride of lions,” which (IIRC) seems to have come into use later than either “exaltation of larks” or “murder of crows.” ---
**Author:** ![gluteus\_maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f17d59/32.png) [@gluteus\_maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gluteus_maximus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/14 "2004-02-09T16:00:50Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > A search for {murder crows} or {exultation larks} will pull up a tapestry of threads on this subject. Where did you find that ‘a tapestry of threads’ one? How poetic! Did you make that one up yourself, **moriah**? I like it! > [@](#): > > And what’s the definition of a word no one uses? Ummm… ‘an unused word’ ? ‘A whatchamacallit’ ? I’ve got a whole 1600-page thingamajig of whatchamacallits right here on the shelf, and I’ll bet you do, to! ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/15 "2004-02-09T18:38:59Z")
The expression has been around for centuries, but it really took off after it was mentioned in the early 90s **Sandman** comic book. That comic’s cover artist, Dave McKean, also designed the album cover of Counting Crows’ _A Murder of One_, so it’s a good bet that someone in the band was a **Sandman** fan. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2004, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/228075/16 "2004-02-10T02:10:44Z")
> [@gluteus maximus](#): > > Where did you find that ‘a tapestry of threads’ one? > > How poetic! > > did you make that one up yourself, **moriah**? I like it! Thanks, I’ve created a whole piggy bank of coined collecive nouns. Peace.