# A murder of crows **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 12, 2000, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093 "2000-08-12T07:31:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![darkcool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@darkcool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/darkcool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2000, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/1 "2000-08-12T07:31:20Z")
How come almost every group of animals has it’s own designation? This seems very silly and arbitrary to me. Really, why not just a heard, flock, school or just plain ol’ ‘bunch’ of everything? it would MUCH simpler. And who’s job is it to think of these things? I called thr NYPL to no avail, ditto on searches. ---
**Author:** ![Snaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Snaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snaf)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2000, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/2 "2000-08-12T12:50:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by darkcool \* > \*\*How come almost every group of animals has it’s own designation? This seems very silly and arbitrary to me. > Really, why not just a heard, flock, school or just plain ol’ ‘bunch’ of everything? it would MUCH simpler. > > And who’s job is it to think of these things? > I called thr NYPL to no avail, ditto on searches. > \*\* You find collective nouns silly and arbitrary? Not poetic, romantic, delightful or apt? Exultations of larks and parliaments of owls do nothing for you? 🙂 When I’ve seen collective nouns listed the authority merely seems to be what’s traditional. Consequently there are few, if any, names for Australian animals (possible exception - a mob of kangaroos). People have suggested a ‘screech of cockatoos’ or a ‘gumboot of redbacks’ but they don’t seem to have entered the vernacular, alas 😉 Last but not least, it’s hardly gramatically incorrect for you to call everything a ‘bunch’ or ‘group’ if you wish; collective nouns are only kept alive as long as people use them. From a newbie of Snafs ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2000, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/3 "2000-08-12T18:01:21Z")
The absolutely earliest terms were terms of the hunt. They were the technical words (jargon) that is associated with any specialized activity. Since the people who engaged in “the hunt” were from the gentry, they began associating those terms with many other beasts and then began to apply them in poetic references to people. If this sort of thing bothers you, go to the library and check out **An Exaltation of Larks** by James Lipton for more information. If this stuff intrigues you, buy the book. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2000, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/4 "2000-08-12T19:02:36Z")
These are called venereal terms, by the way, _AKA_ terms of venery. Somehow from the Latin **Venus** , the goddess of love. Now, I can see why Venus might be associated, _en revanche_, with the goddess of love, but why not **Diana** for what began as jargon of the hunt? Perhaps it’s the chase the two, um, _arts_ have in common. (What are the chances that the James Lipton who wrote _An Exaltation of Larks_ is the same creepy, reptilian, sycophantic invertebrate who hosts Bravo’s “Inside the Actors’ Studio”? The effete, aristophilic manner in which the book was written makes me think it very likely.) ---
**Author:** ![Wood\_Thrush](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b38774/32.png) [@Wood\_Thrush](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wood_Thrush)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2000, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/5 "2000-08-12T19:16:52Z")
From [Kevin McGowan](http://cuvc.bio.cornell.edu/mcgowan/index.html)’s [Crow FAQ](http://cuvc.bio.cornell.edu/mcgowan/crowfaq.htm#murder): > [@](#): > > \*\*What is a group of crows called (as in “a gaggle of geese”)? \*\* > > The poetic term for a bunch of crows is a “murder.” No scientist calls them that, only poets. Scientists would call it a flock. These terms are pretty much not used. If I said I routinely see a murder three or four times a day, it would confuse most people. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2000, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/6 "2000-08-12T19:54:11Z")
It looks to me like a way of lending some charactor to the animals described and gives some colour to the English language. If you want to say a bunch of frogs or a flock of geese no probs but trying to use to tools of communication bequeathed by your ancestors is not a bad thing either. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2000, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/7 "2000-08-12T21:14:15Z")
I don’t have a cite for this, but I believe that I read that all the “strange” collective names were made up _ex nihilo_ by Parliament in the 1600s. They even used “parliament” as a collective name. . . For a group of owls, the wisest of animals. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Montfort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Montfort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montfort)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2000, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/8 "2000-08-12T22:44:24Z")
A few years ago, my friend, who owned a gigantic yellow stuffed duck, happened to have her birthday coincide with Easter Sunday. So, to commemorate, just about every day of Lent, leading up to her birthday, her mother would send her a new stuffed duck in the mail. I was commissioned to help name some of the new brethen, and after a while, we wanted to know what a collective of ducks is called. We searched high and low, but couldn’t find a name. So, we made up a name, and it stuck: **A Noah of ducks.** (She’s got over a hundred different stuffed ducks now, btw, and all but a handful are yellow, and all are named.) ---
**Author:** ![fierra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@fierra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fierra)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/9 "2000-08-13T02:05:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Montfort \* > \*\*A few years ago, my friend, who owned a gigantic yellow stuffed duck, happened to have her birthday coincide with Easter Sunday. So, to commemorate, just about every day of Lent, leading up to her birthday, her mother would send her a new stuffed duck in the mail. > > I was commissioned to help name some of the new brethen, and after a while, we wanted to know what a collective of ducks is called. We searched high and low, but couldn’t find a name. So, we made up a name, and it stuck: > > **A Noah of ducks.** > > (She’s got over a hundred different stuffed ducks now, btw, and all but a handful are yellow, and all are named.) \*\* We were bored at work one day ( a strange idea, but it happens!) and I suggested an error of programmers and a tribulation of testers… they seemed quite popular. For some strange reason, the programmers think that the testers are the tribulation & vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/10 "2000-08-13T03:15:27Z")
Has anyone ever even _seen_ a Parliament of owls??? The only owls I ever see are alone. Or at most, with their sole mate. That would make a pair. Same with tigers. What is a group of tigers called? I think the only time you will see one, would be at the circus!! Other than that, they stick to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![darkcool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@darkcool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/darkcool)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/11 "2000-08-13T07:11:40Z")
I think, Nenno, the word you are looking for is a bozo of tigers:) ---
**Author:** ![Yankee\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/7ea924/32.png) [@Yankee\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankee_Blue)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/12 "2000-08-13T13:17:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mjollnir \* > \*\* > They even used “parliament” as a collective name. . . > > For a group of owls, the wisest of animals. > > Of course. \*\* Parliament is also the collective noun used for a group/band/bunch of Rooks. I had not heard it applied to owls before. ---
**Author:** ![Snaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Snaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snaf)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2000, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-murder-of-crows/29093/13 "2000-08-13T13:20:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by darkcool \* > \*\*I think, Nenno, the word you are looking for is a bozo of tigers:) \*\* Not a Hobbes of tigers? 😉 Snaf