# A mystery \[Why people accept Trump\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 6, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565 "2020-02-06T21:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/81 "2020-02-08T15:06:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > We seem to be in vehement agreement here. They resent the democratization of economic distribution. There was a time when whites (in America) felt like they were top of the heap. They weren’t “rich” but they had minorities to look down on because minorities knew they place is the social pecking order. As that changed, with the emergence of liberal values becoming the popular norm, their relatively lower middle class economic stature was compounded by their declining social stature. Hence the MAGA-reaction. Because they are convinced that minorities are taking their jobs and liberals are telling them that they are bigots and troglodytes for being angry about it. Yes to all the above. There’s never been a time when all whites were guaranteed an idyllic middle class life, but there was a time when it was definitely possible for most whites to join the middle class, and they could do so without a college degree. They just needed a skill, and truth be told, many people aren’t interested in college; they just want a 9-5, Monday through Friday schedule and some money to spend on the weekends. That kind of life is increasingly difficult to find now, and it has coincided with major technological, economic, social, and political shifts. The rise of conservatism in the 1990s was a response to challenge the growth of liberalism. Despite the fact that we’ve seen signs of political and social revolution with the election of Barack Obama as president and the legalization of gay marriage, there was already a growing counter-revolution underway. And that counter-revolution roared in the form of the 1994 Republican Revolution, Proposition 187, GOP congressmen like Tom Tancredo and Steven King’s anti-immigration platform, the Tea Party, and ultimately, Trump. There were important moments of progress, like Obama’s election and like gay marriage, but that was taking shape in an increasingly, sharply polarized environment. A majority of white America was rejecting liberalism and embracing White Christian Nationalism, and this was true for some time before Trump came to power. Trump just represents a greater extreme, a more intense rejection of liberalism. They’re not embracing policies; they’re embracing their perceived cultural identity and place in society. But this is much less likely to happen if we embrace the values of economic parity and fairness. It’s when we stop seeing that value that we become less inclusive and less tolerant because among the group that hold’s power there’s an underlying assumption, an underlying fear, of scarcity. “There are only so many jobs, and those goddamn ‘people’ are trying to steal them from us.” "Housing prices are going up and I cain’t even pay rent anymore. And it’s cause them damn people are movin’ in and messin’ up what used to be a good neighborhood for kids to play in.’ (Bonus points if ‘them damn people’ speak another language and have darker skin). Of course for some it’s just change that’s the issue. “Hell, I remember when you could pinch your secretary’s ass in the office and ask her to bring you a cup a coffee - til them damn feminazis took over!” Meanwhile, the white liberals who defend these changes are seen as radicals and race traitors. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/82 "2020-02-08T15:39:53Z")
Resolved! And in just under 100 posts. Well done everyone. Why haven’t we thought of this before? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/83 "2020-02-09T00:38:03Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Jesus fucking christ, “doesn’t fuck up … the stuff that matters”, what kind of ignorance are you living in? Do you even pay any attention to what this shitpile administration is running over roughshod? That is just goddam depressing, to realize that jello-brains like you are allowed near a ballot. Well, I didn’t and won’t vote for him, but tell me, what’s “the stuff that matters” to you? Probably different than it is to me, because he doesn’t fuck (most) of the stuff that matters _to me_. Oh, the wall matters to me (I’m contra), but he’s not successful, so I don’t count that as “fucking up” yet. He’s ineffective. That’s good. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/84 "2020-02-09T01:25:02Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Well, I didn’t and won’t vote for him, but tell me, what’s “the stuff that matters” to you? Probably different than it is to me, because he doesn’t fuck (most) of the stuff that matters _to me_. Oh, the wall matters to me (I’m contra), but he’s not successful, so I don’t count that as “fucking up” yet. > > He’s ineffective. That’s good. There are things that the government has done well in the past. Like making our food supply non-poisonous, for one. Forcing auto makers to produce decent, product. Forcing resource extraction companies to do at least a half-assed job of not destroying the neighborhoods they operate in. And this bullshit with lightbulbs. He is basically destroying every positive the government has to offer, because, reasons. If none of that means anything for you, keep thinking he is harmless, as you lie on your deathbed losing your battle with salmonella. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/85 "2020-02-09T03:43:15Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > There are things that the government has done well in the past. Like making our food supply non-poisonous, for one. Forcing auto makers to produce decent, product. Forcing resource extraction companies to do at least a half-assed job of not destroying the neighborhoods they operate in. And this bullshit with lightbulbs. He is basically destroying every positive the government has to offer, because, reasons. If none of that means anything for you, keep thinking he is harmless, as you lie on your deathbed losing your battle with salmonella. Our food supply is still non-poisonous. Our auto makers still produce competitive product. Resource extraction companies aren’t destroying neighborhoods. And, really, who the fuck gives a single fuck about lightbulbs? Dude, if you’re going to say that he’s not harmless, at least state something harmful! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/86 "2020-02-09T04:17:19Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Well, I didn’t and won’t vote for him, but tell me, what’s “the stuff that matters” to you? Probably different than it is to me, because he doesn’t fuck (most) of the stuff that matters _to me_. Oh, the wall matters to me (I’m contra), but he’s not successful, so I don’t count that as “fucking up” yet. > > He’s ineffective. That’s good. Trump doesn’t worry me too much. He’s incompetent, stupid, lazy, and weak. Those traits all mitigate the amount of damage Trump causes. What I worry about is Trump’s example. I’m sure there are plenty of other Republicans who are seeing the kinds of things Trump gets away with and realizing they haven’t been pushing the boundaries anywhere near as hard as they could have. I’m sure Dick Cheney, for example, now regrets those occasions when he refrained from breaking the law. I’m worried that the next Republican President or maybe the one after that will have Trump’s disdain for the law and morality and the public good - but will be intelligent enough to hide his true nature and to actually carry out his plans. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/87 "2020-02-09T04:46:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You act like these rules just happened and it’s something both parties have to live with. I’m not acting anything, just a furrier posting on a website. But these rules have been around for quite a while, both parties and the US body politic need to live with it, and you are getting indignant because you side is coming second in a two horse race. And if your mob can’t beat Trump in two attempts, which of us do you think has lost the plot? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/88 "2020-02-09T14:08:07Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Our food supply is still non-poisonous. Our auto makers still produce competitive product. Resource extraction companies aren’t destroying neighborhoods. And, really, who the fuck gives a single fuck about lightbulbs? > > Dude, if you’re going to say that he’s not harmless, at least state something harmful! You’ve not been paying attention. - relaxed pollution restrictions allowing dumping of waste and chemicals into waterways - expanded drilling and fracking - reduced restrictions on methane trapping - separated families, caged children, caused death and suffering - exited the nuclear deal with Iran - exited climate accord with the world - started a trade war with China and provided more subsidies to American farmers than those provided to American car manufacturers in the 2007/8/9 financial crisis (p.s. the car manufacturers have paid the government back, the farmers - never gonna happen) - provides cover and support to racists and bigots - cozies up to autocrats and despots - shames the nation every time he opens his stupid fucking mouth …and that’s just some of the harmful shit he’s done. So if you want to continue pretending that none of the above effects you, fine. Live your self-centered, oblivious life. But don’t fucking ask for for examples of harm that’s been done by Trump&Co, as if all that’s at stake is some light bulbs. You fucking well know. You just don’t care because it’s inconvenient to your shallow existence. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/89 "2020-02-09T14:25:52Z")
> [@contradancer](#): > > What mind set is it that allows millions of people to seemingly approve of a president who is so obviously mentally ill; who makes bad decisions, and is morally bankrupt?☹ In part, a highly sophisticated, well-funded digital campaign taking advantage of the inability of many people to differentiate between legitimate journalism and propaganda. [This interesting, if rather lengthy](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-2020-disinformation-war/605530/) _Atlantic_ piece tends to make one think the situation for responsible journalism carrying the day is increasingly hopeless. See if you think the Trump campaign (or other politician of your choice) might ever consider pulling something like the tactic related in the anecdote below: > [@](#): > > Shortly after polls closed in Kentucky’s gubernatorial election last November, an anonymous Twitter user named @Overlordkraken1 announced to his 19 followers that he had “just shredded a box of Republican mail in ballots” in Louisville. > There was little reason to take this claim at face value, and plenty of reason to doubt it (beginning with the fact that he’d misspelled Louisville). But the race was tight, and as incumbent Governor Matt Bevin began to fall behind in the vote total, an army of Twitter bots began spreading the election-rigging claim. > > The original post was removed by Twitter, but by then thousands of automated accounts were circulating screenshots of it with the hashtag #StoptheSteal. Popular right-wing internet personalities jumped on the narrative, and soon the Bevin campaign was making noise about unspecified voting “irregularities.” When the race was called for his opponent, the governor refused to concede, and asked for a statewide review of the vote. (No evidence of ballot-shredding was found, and he finally admitted defeat nine days later.) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/90 "2020-02-09T14:31:10Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > Once again, the Dems are failing to come up with a candidate that can calm the fears of the haves while uniting the have nots. It’s not as easy as it looks, and it’s a direct result of political polarization and a Balkanization of the electorate. The old big tents under which the parties used to coalesce have collapsed, which is causing realignment in both parties. As awfully unpopular as Trump is, the Republican party’s new identity is coming into focus: for now at least, it’s the party of Trump. Democrats, OTOH, are still trying to find out who they are, and it’s a terrible time to have this sort of identity crisis. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/91 "2020-02-09T14:31:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You’ve not been paying attention. > > - relaxed pollution restrictions allowing dumping of waste and chemicals into waterways > - expanded drilling and fracking > - reduced restrictions on methane trapping > - separated families, caged children, caused death and suffering > - exited the nuclear deal with Iran > - exited climate accord with the world > - started a trade war with China and provided more subsidies to American farmers than those provided to American car manufacturers in the 2007/8/9 financial crisis (p.s. the car manufacturers have paid the government back, the farmers - never gonna happen) > - provides cover and support to racists and bigots > - cozies up to autocrats and despots > - shames the nation every time he opens his stupid fucking mouth > > …and that’s just some of the harmful shit he’s done. > > So if you want to continue pretending that none of the above effects you, fine. Live your self-centered, oblivious life. But don’t fucking ask for for examples of harm that’s been done by Trump&Co, as if all that’s at stake is some light bulbs. You fucking well know. You just don’t care because it’s inconvenient to your shallow existence. Yeah, but has Trump worn a tan suit yet? Because that would be going too far. I miss the days when President All-of-Them didn’t have to hold public, profane, untruthful, boastful airing-of-grievances every week. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/92 "2020-02-09T14:34:48Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > In part, a highly sophisticated, well-funded digital campaign taking advantage of the inability of many people to differentiate between legitimate journalism and propaganda. > > [This interesting, if rather lengthy](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/03/the-2020-disinformation-war/605530/) _Atlantic_ piece tends to make one think the situation for responsible journalism carrying the day is increasingly hopeless. See if you think the Trump campaign (or other politician of your choice) might ever consider pulling something like the tactic related in the anecdote below: This example is part of a broader problem, which is that the mechanisms that nurtured democracy in the late 19th and 20th Centuries may no longer be sufficient. Constitutions - not just the American one - could prove to be inadequate in dealing with the challenges of the 21st Century. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/93 "2020-02-09T14:40:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You’ve not been paying attention. > > - relaxed pollution restrictions allowing dumping of waste and chemicals into waterways > - expanded drilling and fracking > - reduced restrictions on methane trapping > - separated families, caged children, caused death and suffering > - exited the nuclear deal with Iran > - exited climate accord with the world > - started a trade war with China and provided more subsidies to American farmers than those provided to American car manufacturers in the 2007/8/9 financial crisis (p.s. the car manufacturers have paid the government back, the farmers - never gonna happen) > - provides cover and support to racists and bigots > - cozies up to autocrats and despots > - shames the nation every time he opens his stupid fucking mouth > > …and that’s just some of the harmful shit he’s done. > > So if you want to continue pretending that none of the above effects you, fine. Live your self-centered, oblivious life. But don’t fucking ask for for examples of harm that’s been done by Trump&Co, as if all that’s at stake is some light bulbs. You fucking well know. You just don’t care because it’s inconvenient to your shallow existence. There was also a massive tax cut for the one percenters, combined with a limitation on the deductibility of state and local taxes (to $10,000). The latter was particularly nasty, as it affected those in left-leaning states (California, New York, Connecticut) to a greater extent than those in states that favored Trump. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/94 "2020-02-09T14:53:17Z")
Like I said, it’s been shown time and again how futile it is to expect reasoned explanations about what they consider to be “bad” or “evil” about democrats from Trump apologists and tacit by-standers. Best so far seems to be, “Well, shucks, he ain’t done me no harm.” ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/95 "2020-02-09T15:04:02Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So if you want to continue pretending that none of the above effects you, fine. Live your self-centered, oblivious life. But don’t fucking ask for for examples of harm that’s been done by Trump&Co, as if all that’s at stake is some light bulbs. You fucking well know. You just don’t care because it’s inconvenient to your shallow existence. Most of the stuff isn’t real harm, and most of it doesn’t matter to you, either. Why should you raise your blood pressure over it? Just vote, and wait for the next guy to do what he does. I do hope some of that stuff gets fixed; but if not, it in no way inconveniences me or conveniences me in any way. I’m not sure why you would mention something so ridiculous as an argument. I guess your passion gets in the way of your brain. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/96 "2020-02-09T15:21:34Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Most of the stuff isn’t real harm, and most of it doesn’t matter to you, either. Why should you raise your blood pressure over it? Just vote, and wait for the next guy to do what he does. I do hope some of that stuff gets fixed; but if not, it in no way inconveniences me or conveniences me in any way. I’m not sure why you would mention something so ridiculous as an argument. I guess your passion gets in the way of your brain. I’m a pretty avid fitness enthusiast. My heart rate, blood pressure, and other vitals are excellent. Thanks for your concern. How do you presume to know whether things I listed have not had a direct impact on me? But I get it. You don’t give a fuck about anything. Fair enough. Except you sure seem to care about those “bad” and “evil” democrats. So which is it? You care? You don’t care? Or just running your stupid mouth about things you don’t take time to understand or care about. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/97 "2020-02-09T15:32:50Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Most of the stuff isn’t real harm, and most of it doesn’t matter to you, either. Why should you raise your blood pressure over it? Just vote, and wait for the next guy to do what he does. I do hope some of that stuff gets fixed; but if not, it in no way inconveniences me or conveniences me in any way. I’m not sure why you would mention something so ridiculous as an argument. I guess your passion gets in the way of your brain. And there it is. “Well shucks, he ain’t done me no _real_ harm.” Jesus. You’re just illustrating the typical Trump voter strength; Pure, unadulterated ignorance of the world around them. Yes, I know you didn’t vote for him. But you do seem to really understand the typical Trump voter’s ignorance. You really do seem to feel that if industrial chemicals are dumped in rivers around the nation, it does not really matter, as long as YOU have clean water to drink. Thanks for illustrating the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/98 "2020-02-09T15:36:35Z")
The “bad and evil” Democrats were thankfully prevented from doing their bad stuff, like ensuring that low income Americans have access to healthcare. Can you imagine the nightmare world if this was allowed to occur? And we also dodged the horrible scenario where foreign countries were not allowed to help the president win elections. Thank God we made it clear that a Republican President can do anything he wants, illegal or not, as long as it is the service of winning him an election. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/99 "2020-02-09T15:39:52Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > I miss the days when President All-of-Them didn’t have to hold public, profane, untruthful, boastful airing-of-grievances every week. Yeah, but at least we can say Happy Festivus again. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565/100 "2020-02-10T16:43:44Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And there it is. “Well shucks, he ain’t done me no _real_ harm.” …and he was heard to say as he passed the 80th floor, “So far, so good.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-mystery-why-people-accept-trump/847565.md?page=4)