# A National God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979 "2011-11-05T19:33:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/101 "2011-11-10T00:35:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > This is, like, so wrong. > > Try explaining the Doolittle raid on Japan in 1942. God sent a strong wind to allow the U.S. carrier Hornet\* to launch heavy bombers off its deck, then the same bad weather forced the American bombers to hit Japan from different angles, confusing the enemy. Before that, the Japanese Divine Wind had protected _them_. So clearly God is on our side, or else you have to believe in random weather fronts and other pagan crapola. Don’t forget the fact that the English Channel was exceptionally calm during the Dunkirk evacuation. God and I have something in common: We’re both really into World War II. If He had stopped Hitler in the first place, it would’ve ruined all that cool history. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/102 "2011-11-10T15:59:52Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > That did not answer my question. How do you know our “prince-dom” has the “god on money” requirement, and others do not? You are clearly not up on the Bible and religious logic. Anything bad is the result of the devil, anything good is the result of God. Anything you believe in is supported somewhere in the Bible (in clear English) and anything you disagree with is prohibited by the Bible. The wonderful thing is that it remains true regardless of what positions you hold. It is truly a miracle. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/103 "2011-11-10T16:21:09Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > You are clearly not up on the Bible and religious logic. Anything bad is the result of the devil, anything good is the result of God. What is the devil the result of? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/104 "2011-11-10T16:32:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > What is the devil the result of? A reply to a reply of a **Kanicbird** post. Just quoting the reasonable reply did not really give much context of **Kanicbirds** ’s original post I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/105 "2011-11-10T16:44:01Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > A reply to a reply of a **Kanicbird** post. Just quoting the reasonable reply did not really give much context of **Kanicbirds** ’s original post I’m afraid. Naw, I wasn’t whooshed; I was just hoping you’d give your best **Kanicbird** answer. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/106 "2011-11-10T17:01:06Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Naw, I wasn’t whooshed; I was just hoping you’d give your best **Kanicbird** answer. I read your post as “What the devil was that a result of?” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/107 "2011-11-11T00:47:14Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > What is the devil the result of? Dramatic necessity. What good would Star Wars be without Darth Vader? ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/108 "2011-11-11T03:10:02Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Dramatic necessity. What good would Star Wars be without Darth Vader? “Luke, I am you Father (and Son and the Holy Ghost)”. ---
**Author:** ![Xanzia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/df788c/32.png) [@Xanzia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xanzia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/109 "2011-11-13T06:56:41Z")
Time magazine claim that 92% of Americans believe in God. For me that means that 92% of Americans trust in something that doesn’t exist if to exist God must have form and substance (actually do something). However, I do advocate for a kind of survey into exactly what God is. Those 92% should be allowed to describe exactly what their God looks like, whether it is male, female or something else. What God actually does, is it sentient or passively reflexive in response to events. To be honest, if 92% of people are going to believe in God they had better start coming up with some answers in an age in which science has made God almost entirely irrelevant. God is most untrustworthy concept. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/110 "2011-11-13T07:08:18Z")
> [@Xanzia](#): > > Time magazine claim that 92% of Americans believe in God. For me that means that 92% of Americans trust in something that doesn’t exist if to exist God must have form and substance (actually do something). > However, I do advocate for a kind of survey into exactly what God is. Those 92% should be allowed to describe exactly what their God looks like, whether it is male, female or something else. What God actually does, is it sentient or passively reflexive in response to events. To be honest, if 92% of people are going to believe in God they had better start coming up with some answers in an age in which science has made God almost entirely irrelevant. God is most untrustworthy concept. It might very well be that 92% of Americans believe in several thousand different “Gods”. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/111 "2011-11-13T12:45:19Z")
> [@computergeek](#): > > It was reaffirming that “In God We Trust” is the national motto (adopted in 1956). And it was a non-binding resolution. They wanted to make sure everyone knew that was the motto because apparently some people confused something else for the motto (like Obama). It was a big huge waste of time if you ask me. > > See Huffington Post article [HuffPost - Breaking News, Politics, Entertainment & Opinion](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/02/house-in-god-we-trust_n_1071180.html?ref=politics) for details. The second stanza of our national Anthem says"And thus be our motto, in God is our trust", but in reality people don’t really trust in God, if they did there wouldn’t be any wars, use of medicines, or a need to pray, they would just trust that God is taking care of things and accept whatever happened! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/112 "2011-11-13T12:49:09Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Separation of Church and State doesn’t mean pretending religion and/or God doesn’t exist in the public sphere. Our founding fathers lived in state run or religious run countries, and in their wisdom had Separation of Church and State to protect the state from religion and religion from the state, so the freedom to believe one belief is protected from another, and the state can’t stop a person from practicing their religion, or forcing it on another. Protecting the minority from the majority. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/113 "2011-11-13T13:06:38Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Read my followup post #64. > > It is not the US government who wants that motto, as it is actually contrary to their control, it is God who requires it of the US government for them to continue to exist and it not in the power of the US government to remove it, only God. Can you prove it is God, or just your belief? ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/114 "2011-11-13T13:12:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > What is the devil the result of? Since God was to have created the devil, then it was God’s choice to have evil exist,as I see it that could mean God loves to watch people destroyed by evil. If not why did he allow Satan (or evil) to exist? ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/115 "2011-11-13T18:19:45Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Since God was to have created the devil, then it was God’s choice to have evil exist,as I see it that could mean God loves to watch people destroyed by evil. If not why did he allow Satan (or evil) to exist? I like to think that Yah does not want the saccharine adoration of the masses. The existance of evil serves to separate the sincere and the non-sincere. Now of course Yah would know this anyway; but being a fair judge, he may desire that the non-sincere be convicted in their own hearts as well, therefore some mechanism is desired to do the sorting, so that when the wicked stand in judgment, they see their own wickedness for themselves and condemn themselves. I know I will not be able to look at Him when I’m being judged and not confess my own wickedness. There will be no delusions at judgment and everyone will know their own score. Satan serves as this mechanism. He’s the equivalent of a prosecutor (and a bad prosecutor who engages in all sorts of misconduct) while Yehushua is likened to defense counsel. Rejecting Yehushua is sort of like firing your defense counsel when your defense counsel has a 100% win rate; it’s like firing Gerry Spence as your lawyer, even though he’s guaranteed to win for you even though you are in fact guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/116 "2011-11-13T18:36:15Z")
> [@David42](#): > > I like to think that Yah does not want the saccharine adoration of the masses. The existance of evil serves to separate the sincere and the non-sincere. Now of course Yah would know this anyway; but being a fair judge, he may desire that the non-sincere be convicted in their own hearts as well, therefore some mechanism is desired to do the sorting, so that when the wicked stand in judgment, they see their own wickedness for themselves and condemn themselves. I know I will not be able to look at Him when I’m being judged and not confess my own wickedness. There will be no delusions at judgment and everyone will know their own score. > > Satan serves as this mechanism. He’s the equivalent of a prosecutor (and a bad prosecutor who engages in all sorts of misconduct) while Yehushua is likened to defense counsel. Rejecting Yehushua is sort of like firing your defense counsel when your defense counsel has a 100% win rate; it’s like firing Gerry Spence as your lawyer, even though he’s guaranteed to win for you even though you are in fact guilty. If a judge is indeed all knowing, why have a defense or prosecution? ---
**Author:** ![David42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David42)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/117 "2011-11-13T18:43:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If a judge is indeed all knowing, why have a defense or prosecution? I think I explained that already. So that the judgment does not appear arbitrary and capricious to the one judged; so that the judged convict themselves and cast their delusions aside. So that all things are known. Judgment does not just concern Yah, but all of us, and particularly the one judged. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/118 "2011-11-13T23:24:53Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Well, they could just replace it with a “God with US”, if you want to go PC at it. Since the bit you quoted is actually a line from Handel’s “Messiah”, can I count you as a fellow fan of Handel? How do you feel about Carl Orff? “Carmina Burana” is pretty much tied for first with “Messiah” in my book, but takes a different position on “God’s” relationship to us (or US). Let’s take this argument into _really_ abstract territory! Everybody wins! Or maybe loses. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/119 "2011-11-14T00:09:53Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Dude, only 9 Democrats voted against the resolution! And then of course Fox News sicced the right-wing smear machine on them. Which demonstrates that no matter your political point of view, the US Congress does NOT speak for you, even if you voted for them. Nor does the media outlet you prefer. I’m (not really) surprised to find someone who’s surprised by this fact. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979/120 "2011-11-14T00:15:20Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Is there really a National God? There are no gods. What Congress meant is the white Christian religious imaginary entity they worship. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-national-god/601979.md?page=7)