# A new 419 scammer, a new reply tactic **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 13, 2007, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728 "2007-03-13T09:53:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tofergregg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tofergregg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofergregg)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/41 "2007-03-21T00:39:54Z")
re: passport photo I think you need to call his bluff on that horrible passport. I mean, come ON, laughable is an understatement of an understatement for that monstrosity. You may scare him away, but I would just throw out a “what are you trying to do to me? Send me a legitimate passport facsimile and we’ll talk.” ---
**Author:** ![Barrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Barrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrington)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/42 "2007-03-21T04:43:37Z")
**Mangetout** , this is getting even better than the Werewolf thread. Thanks for spending time on it, and on posting your results. I’ve wanted to do the same thing as you’re doing, but never had the courage to even start. Seems to me that there’s a bit of a conflict here, though - do you want to pursue this for enjoyment or to catch the scammers? That would influence your choice of strategy from here on. And if Inspector Knacker of the Yard were to take this seriously, I’d imagine they’d want to take over the entrapment. That’s a guess, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/43 "2007-03-21T08:30:43Z")
I don’t think there’s any hope of me catching the scammers - so I’m not going to try that - indeed baiting them like this is something the police advise _against_. What I can do is to waste their (the scammers, not the police) time and resources, and piss them off. Patrick Adams has come back with a simple demand for contact details: > [@](#): > > Thanks for the commendation, I requested for your full contact details so > that we can get things started right away. > > Please get back to me with your full contact details, along with you > telephone and fax number where you can be reached for further clarification. > > Looking forward to hearing from you soonest. > > Regards, > > Patrick Adams. He still hasn’t sent me the promised picture of Mrs Grace, so I’m going to push for that. I’m not going to give him my telephone number, but I can set up a fax-to-email service for free (well, free to me - premium rate for him to send me stuff!), and I’ll make some excuse about the rest. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/44 "2007-03-21T08:51:41Z")
I actually spoke to one once (I turned off caller ID on my phone). He didn’t know which scam it was he was answering the phone to - he was meant to be a Czech man in Scotland, but sounded more like an African man in wherever, though he did change his tune when I reminded him what scam it was he was involved in. (It was the hotel one - I told him I have a golden shower in every room.) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/45 "2007-03-21T09:04:39Z")
I’ve sent him this: > [@](#): > > Hello Patrick > > Do you have the photograph of Mrs Johnson that you promised yet? > > I don’t have a fax number, as I am travelling in the UK at the moment - I am a German citizen, training staff at a number of UK offices the telecoms company I work for. > > For the next six days, I am staying in a hotel in Manchester with my assistant. Travelling like this is not really living, but on the plus side, the company is very generous with expenses, paying a monthly cash allowance in advance - my assistant always finds a way to spend all of his allowance, but I prefer to live more frugally and usually keep about half of my expenses money - which is good, because it’s tax-free. > > So email is my primary method of contact. If you need to fax me some documents, I suppose I could give you the number of my office in Essen and someone there could scan and email to me. If you need me to fax something to you, I can do that from the stationery store down the street. > > I apologise for this inconvenience - it might be easier if we arrange to meet in person - are you based in London? I am scheduled to stay in Watford at the end of the month. > > Bye for now > Wilton Ecks The waffle about expenses is just another way of saying “my pockets are overflowing with banknotes”. I’m guessing he won’t take me up on my fax suggestion, as he won’t want other people in the loop. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/46 "2007-03-21T12:10:53Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I don’t think there’s any hope of me catching the scammers - so I’m not going to try that - indeed baiting them like this is something the police advise _against_. What I can do is to waste their (the scammers, not the police) time and resources, and piss them off. [/QUOTE] There was a “Dateline” program on NBC last night about this very thing. One of the segments dealt with a scam-baiter named Bill – I assume he’s retired or otherwise independently wealthy, as he spends most of his time tying up the time and energies of internet scammers. One thing I don’t quite get – what’s the purpose of using the bilkster language? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/47 "2007-03-21T12:18:20Z")
Dunno. Mostly to confound, I suppose. Blikster was something I invented (but never actually used) back when I was baiting [Mr Austin Wemba](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=242804&highlight=wemba) - I just used it as an excuse for why Dick Dastardly’s command of the English Language was so poor. Scambaiting always needs some kind of twist like that; if you try to deal straightforwardly with these folks, it’s all over far too soon. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/48 "2007-03-21T12:28:01Z")
This is great! If it had just been me I think I’d have used Babelfish and translated from English into some other language - say, Dutch - and then back again. But Blikster is excellent, and looks sort of like Old English and sort of like some other European language, which is amazing really. My idea would have looked like this, btw: > [@Babelfish English->Dutch->English](#): > > This is large! If it exactly me had been thinks I I’d Babelfish has had been used and from English in one or other other language - say, Dutch - and then again supports translated. But can ASTRE is sticking out, and looks at approximately such as old English and approximately such as one or other other European language, which is really astonishing. Keep playing that fish! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/49 "2007-03-21T12:39:13Z")
I pasted a few sentences of Blikster into one of those online language identifiers; it came back with Slovakian, Croatian, Catalan or Czech. If I get as far as sending love letters from Mr Tsedd (Ecks’ assistant) to Mrs Grace, I’m going use an online translation to German and back to English. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/50 "2007-03-21T14:44:28Z")
This sounds like you’re having a marvelous bit of fun. Thanks for the entertainment! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/51 "2007-03-21T15:26:40Z")
Barrister Patrick has peaked too soon! He’s already asking for money! > [@](#): > > Dear Wilton Ecks, > > Thanks for your swift response, it would have been great if we speak over > the phone but as it is, I am schedule to be in Israel by next week but I > will be working and communicating with you when am there. > > Further more, for us to move forward, you will have to get in touch with the > security company directly as the beneficiary to Mrs. Grace Johnson�s fund. > But before that could be done you will have to secure the necessary document > in your name. These are the documents that the security company will demand > from you before they commence on the processing and finally release the fund > to you in person meaning that your presence will be needed at the security > company. So you should be ready to go to the security company with the > following documents. > > 1. Power of attorney from the crown court. > 2. Letter of administration. > 3. Affidavit of claim from the crown court. > 4. Change of ownership certificate. > > Finally; for us to get these document, it�s going to cost us 4,500 great > British pound for the procurement of these document needed for the release > of the fund by the security company. > > Please get back to me urgently, as I do need to conclude this business with > Mrs. Grace Johnson before I embark on my trip to Israel > > Thanks and God Bless, I look forward to hearing from you soonest. > > Regards, > > Patrick Adams. Ecks has responded: > [@](#): > > Hello Patrick > > That all sounds completely standard. I apologise for the difficulties with communication, but if you can provide me with the contact details for the security firm, I will do my best to get through to them. > > By the way, I still would very much like that picture of Mrs Johnson that you promised - I know there’s a tendency in business for little things like that to be swept under the rug and forgotten, but in view of her enormous generosity in this matter, I feel this matter must not be left unaddressed. I know you will not let me down on this. > > Bye for now > Wilton Ecks ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/52 "2007-03-21T15:35:41Z")
As an afterthought, Ecks also wrote: > [@](#): > > Hello again Patrick > > I almost forgot to mention - those intolerable simpletons Mange and Dastardly keep pestering me with questions about the progress of our deal - I have tried fending them off with vague promises and words of false encouragement, but they are getting quite persistent and agitated now and it is becoming more than an annoyance. > > Do you think you could possibly contact them and make some excuse as to why the deal cannot be concluded with them? I would do this myself, but they might suspect me of foul play. > > Thanks for your help in this matter > > Bye for now > Wilton Ecks ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/53 "2007-03-21T22:50:13Z")
Patrick replies: > [@](#): > > Thanks for your mail, please bear with me I will have it scanned and sent to > you first thing tomorrow morning as I am about leaving my office. > > I was planning on telling Mange and Dastardly something reasonable because > they keep writing me every day. I advise you send me a telephone number > where i can reach you or better still get you self a phone so that we can > discuss more about this transaction. i do hope you understand that I don�t > feel more comfortable if I don�t get to hear your voice and get to know you > more. > > I believe you know that we are talking about a huge amount of money here and > my duty is to guide you through to the security company and make sure that > the fund is released to you. > > We have to secure all documents in your name before I furnish you with the > contact details of the security company, because they will request for all > those documents I mentioned to you. > Finally; I was to send you a copy of a deed of agreement for you to sign and > send back to me but I need to talk to you before I can do that. Please note > that this transaction is not for only email conversation. > > I look forward to hearing from you soonest. > > Regards, > > Patrick Adams. So Ecks has responded: > [@](#): > > Hello Patrick > > Be assured, I understand the full gravity of our transaction here, and if I have not already said so, please let me commend you on your professional handling of every detail. > > You are of course absolutely right that we need to talk - the mobile phone provided by my company does not work properly and they make no effort to remedy it - this is highly ironic, as it is a telecoms company - but anyway, I will try to purchase my own personal telephone tomorrow. This may prove difficult, as I have double training sessions both morning and afternoon, on opposite sides of the city, but there may still be time to go to the Arndale Centre and purchase one. > > I have received again an email from Dastardly and two more from Mange. They seem to be getting quite frantic nowand their intrusion is becoming a great nuisance. I appreciate you saying you will deal with this, and if you have not already done so, I think I should advise that it may be necessary for you to be quite forceful and assertive with them, otherwise they may not disengage. > > I will inform you when I have procured a new telephone and I look forward to communicating via email in the hopefully short meantime. > > Bye for now > Wilton Ecks I’m not actually going to bother buying a phone - I think I’ll consider this operation a success if I get a picture of Mrs Johnson and a bonus if Patrick sends threatening emails to Mange and Dastardly. I don’t know if I’ll be able to stall things for long enough to get Tsedd on the scene and have him fall in love with Mrs Johnson. maybe… ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/54 "2007-03-22T01:33:14Z")
If you play him long enough, see if you can get him to call your associate in the States. You know, at my favorite number, 202-456-1414. Alternately, use the appropriate number for your anti-scammer law enforcement department. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/55 "2007-03-22T03:30:00Z")
This has been great fun. I was almost late to work today, reading this thread. I can hardly wait to see how it all works out. Keep up the good work, **Mangetout**! ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/56 "2007-03-22T04:18:02Z")
[QUOTE=Scuba\_Ben] If you play him long enough, see if you can get him to call your associate in the States. You know, at my favorite number, 202-456-1414. Alternately, use the appropriate number for your anti-scammer law enforcement department. [/QUOTE] Would that be his associate George? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/57 "2007-03-22T08:23:58Z")
No further updates at present; it’s usually around midday when I get something. I’m thinking I might kill off Ecks - a tragic accident - crushed beneath the wheels of a bus as he rushed unthinking across the street in his haste to reach the mobile phone store before it closed. Tsedd can then jump in and try to wrap things up. It would be interesting to see if these scammers would just shrug off the death of one of their marks. I’m not going to do that until Ecks has received the picture of Mrs Johnson - it looks as though that will be coming today. My guess is that she will be a grandmotherly white woman. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/58 "2007-03-22T08:37:19Z")
Have you checked the originating IP addresses in the mail headers? [Samspade.org](http://Samspade.org) will tell you where they’re located. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/59 "2007-03-22T08:38:00Z")
Even for a hotmail address? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2007, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728/60 "2007-03-22T08:57:39Z")
Usually - the penultimate number on the list (as you read it from the top) is the IP address of the computer that sent the mail to Hotmail. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-419-scammer-a-new-reply-tactic/395728.md?page=4)