# A new atheist's regrets **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 16, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626 "2011-04-16T17:30:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/61 "2011-04-18T06:59:49Z")
No. Atheism is an absence of belief. Agnosticism is not a position of belief, but a position that it’s impossible to know. “certainty” plays no role for either, and the positions are not contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/62 "2011-04-18T07:08:39Z")
Actually, I’d argue that “agnostic” is more certain, in that it implies a “certainty” that one cannot know. But yes, atheism is simply absence of belief in a deity. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/63 "2011-04-18T07:19:49Z")
There is no standardized definition of agnosticism vs. atheism, as evidenced by you all coming up with conflicting definitions. Which leaves us with the behavior of the atheists and agnostics to tell them apart, and, unless you get them into an argument about atheism and agnosticism, they behave exactly the same, on average. Agnostics don’t consider whether or not god is telling them to buy milk any more than atheists hold midnight non-belief vigils. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/64 "2011-04-18T11:51:37Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > There is no standardized definition of agnosticism vs. atheism, as evidenced by you all coming up with conflicting definitions. Which leaves us with the behavior of the atheists and agnostics to tell them apart, and, unless you get them into an argument about atheism and agnosticism, they behave exactly the same, on average. Agnostics don’t consider whether or not god is telling them to buy milk any more than atheists hold midnight non-belief vigils. If you ask a group of people the definition of anything, especially something as complex a belief system, you will get varying definitions. I wish there was some place people you could find standard definitions. Like a book or something…HEY!! [athiest](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist) [agnostic](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic) ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/65 "2011-04-18T11:53:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Yes, that’s EXACTLY what people here are saying. :rolleyes: > > (Dude, I don’t care what you believe, or don’t believe. Just don’t be a dick about it – in this case, claiming you’re SOOOOO much more enlightened than everyone else.) I already admitted I came off arrogant in my OP. It wasn’t my intent. It was poor writing. It was part of a thread of thought that I intended to develop but did not. Yeah - it came off prickish and I apologized for that. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/66 "2011-04-18T12:15:58Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > I already admitted I came off arrogant in my OP. It wasn’t my intent. It was poor writing. It was part of a thread of thought that I intended to develop but did not. Yeah - it came off prickish and I apologized for that. Yes, arrogance and prick-ness abounded in your OP, which made me (figuratively) roll my eyes a bit (though not enough to warrant responding with a rolleyes smilie). That said, I appreciate that you recognize the tone of your OP and admit to it. Consider my eyes unrolled. mmm ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/67 "2011-04-18T14:33:26Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > It’d be nice to live in world where that was shared, and we could demonize each other over important things, like choice of soft drink. Spoken like a evil, filthy, pagan Dr. P-pp-r drinker (so evil, it must not be named). Those people are simply the worst of the worst and must be exterminated forthwith. (yes, of course meant in jest, mods, rolling with the notion and all that. I do wonder why anyone would drink Dr. Pepper, though …) > [@newcrasher](#): > > Case in point is my former pastor. He is brilliant. He speaks English, French, Austrian German, Spanish, and reads Coine Greek and Hebrew. He is a phenominal guitar player and song writer. I mean…he is stellar. I wonder what he could have contributed to humanity if he was not dedicating 10-20 hours to studying ancient texts and attempting to convey some nugget of truth therein to a sleepy group of sheep. I somehow doubt that were he not a pastor that he would read Coine Greek and Hebrew. I would hazard a guess that most people, and all pastors, that do so are to gain a greater understanding of the Bible since it is the predominant text that still exists in those languages. (BTW, note that I combined the two languages - of course Hebrew by itself, as a living, existent language, would have a myriad of reasons for study outside of biblical understanding. But learning it and Coine Greek screams “wanting to learn the Bible without going through translations”) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/68 "2011-04-18T14:56:19Z")
It’s **K** oine Greek, people. With a K. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/69 "2011-04-18T14:56:39Z")
Pissing around and wasting our time doing silly crap is one of the best things about being human. You know what I’m doing on Sunday mornings while I’m not in church? Having coffee and a sandwich with my husband while watching old episodes of Psych on Netflix. Oh, the strides that man has made! Yeah, if people spent all their time working and not say, socializing with neighbors, dressing up, and maybe doing some singing, we could get more shit done. The same is true of reading for pleasure, playing games, staring at the TV, and working on creative but impractical pursuits. But what would be the point? If everyone does nothing but ponder eliminating hunger and building better machines, what are we working for? Do you really feel that everyone is obligated to spend all their mental energy making the world a better place for… other people whose only purpose is to make the world a better place? There’s a balance, and church can fit within it for plenty of people, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/70 "2011-04-18T15:05:57Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > I’ve been a hardcore atheist for 14 years. My atheism never makes me sad. In fact, the world is so much more beautiful and exciting than anything religion ever tried to teach me. Baby atheists, your atheism doesn’t have to make you bitter and sad. Preach it! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/71 "2011-04-18T15:59:58Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > I already admitted I came off arrogant in my OP. It wasn’t my intent. It was poor writing. It was part of a thread of thought that I intended to develop but did not. Yeah - it came off prickish and I apologized for that. That’s cool. 🙂 As long as you’re willing to open your mind and realize that it’s NOT a case of “enlightened atheist/theist” “close-minded theist/atheist”. (It seems like we get about ten of these threads a week, and they can wear on a person after awhile) Go forth and learn, grasshopper. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/72 "2011-04-18T16:08:23Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Yes, arrogance and prick-ness abounded in your OP :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/73 "2011-04-18T16:36:04Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Everything in life becomes about _not_ believing in God, and it ends up defining them. Define yourself in terms of who you want to be, not in terms of who you don’t want to be. This. I spend just as much time not believing in Thor as I do the christian god. If you find yourself often engaged in discussion or debate with theistic friends, then absolutely go to greater lengths to strengthen your position/knowledge. But beyond that lies a whole lot of wasted effort. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/74 "2011-04-18T16:50:56Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > I’ve been a hardcore atheist for 14 years. My atheism never makes me sad. In fact, the world is so much more beautiful and exciting than anything religion ever tried to teach me. Baby atheists, your atheism doesn’t have to make you bitter and sad. I feel the same way. Maybe it’s that while I _tried_ to be religious for some years, it never quite ‘took’, and it was difficult for me as a child. Recognizing my atheism was like being set free. It’s a source of contentment and happiness for me. Plus most science is about 1000x more exciting, marvelous and beautiful than the bible and anything I ever read about religions. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/75 "2011-04-18T16:57:25Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Odd. I have never regretted not studying physics or astronomy. > > Probably because those things never held much interst for me. > > Was it a tennent of your particular church that studying these things was forbidden? Or did you just not care to look into it at the time? Came here to ask this. If your church forbid you from studying these things, then yeah, I can see where some resentment would lay. Otherwise, why didn’t you look into them? I’m an atheist (for a few years now) and religion still fascinates me. I do not consider my time spent reading and studying it a waste. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/76 "2011-04-18T17:36:09Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Came here to ask this. If your church forbid you from studying these things, then yeah, I can see where some resentment would lay. > > Otherwise, why didn’t you look into them? > > I’m an atheist (for a few years now) and religion still fascinates me. I do not consider my time spent reading and studying it a waste. Let me clarify. I came from a relatively liberal and progressive congregation. No one hated science. But I chose to dedicate ten years of my life towards studying the bible in a systematic way much as you would study any subject you are serious about, and trying to use the knowledge I gained to influence others to believe in my theology. The time I spent on these pursuits is something I regret. Personally I wish I had used it to study hard sciences or arts. But no…no one discouraged me from studying anything I wanted. It was my decision and i regret it. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/77 "2011-04-18T19:11:24Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > Imagine all of the highly intelligent people in the world who are face down in some religious text, trying to make sense of it. The brain-drain religion inflicts on the world is immense. Without religion I think we would be living among the stars by now. Yeah, look at how Gregor Mendel wasted his intellect by becoming a monk! Imagine how much could he have taught us about genetics if he’d pursued that instead? Okay, bad example. But what about a brilliant man like Nicolaus Copernicus. He spent years studying Church canon law. Think how much he could have contributed to, say, astronomy instead? Okay, another bad example… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/78 "2011-04-18T21:39:07Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > But I chose to dedicate ten years of my life towards studying the bible in a systematic way much as you would study any subject you are serious about, and trying to use the knowledge I gained to influence others to believe in my theology. The time I spent on these pursuits is something I regret. Heh, oddly enough this bit reminded me of the case of St. Thomas Aquinas, who dedicated many years of his life toward systematic study and thinking and writing and, I suppose you could say, trying to influence others to believe in his theology, until at one point he gave up writing, saying ["everything I have written seems to me like straw.”](http://www.scriptoriumdaily.com/2010/12/06/thomas-aquinas-big-pile-of-straw/) Although in his case, it’s not clear that he regretted the time he spent, and he definitely didn’t become an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/79 "2011-04-18T21:54:19Z")
fucking misquote ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626/80 "2011-04-19T00:19:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You mean like [this guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%C3%AEtre)? > > :rolleyes: > [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > More like like [this guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton). > [@astorian](#): > > Yeah, look at how Gregor Mendel wasted his intellect by becoming a monk! Imagine how much could he have taught us about genetics if he’d pursued that instead? > > Okay, bad example. > > But what about a brilliant man like Nicolaus Copernicus. He spent years studying Church canon law. Think how much he could have contributed to, say, astronomy instead? > > Okay, another bad example… All of these are examples of men of faith who contributed great things towards science. That I will not contest. My point was never that people cannot have faith and be a giant among scientist. My point is that there is a tremendous amount of brainpower, money, and time being squanderred on religious pursuits. I imagine that there have been many Sir Francis Bacons, Michael Faradays, Robert Boyles, Rene Descartes(es) etc who have sat in the pews all their life debating if women should be silent in church, or the meaning of the book of Revelation, or creating excuses for Methuselah’s old age and Noah’s zoological feats. So enamoured were they with the promise of status in the church, or the promise of a righteous life today and eternity at the feet of their beloved sky-king that they never leveraged their formidable intellect againt things that would make a difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-atheists-regrets/578626.md?page=5)