# A New Claim: Russia May Have Helped Move Iraqi WMDs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949 "2005-03-11T01:49:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/1 "2005-03-11T01:49:39Z")
[Russia May Have Helped Move Iraqi WMDs](http://globalpolitician.com/articles.asp?ID=390) > [@](#): > > According to a former top Bush administration official, Russian special forces teams moved weapons of mass destruction out of Iraq to Syria. “I am absolutely sure that Russian Spetsnatz units moved WMDs out of Iraq before the war,” stated John Shaw, the former deputy undersecretary for international technology security. According to Shaw, Russian units hid Saddam’s arsenal inside Syria and in Lebanon’s Bekka valley. > > “While in Iraq I uncovered detailed information that Spetsnatz units shredded records and moved all WMD and specified advanced munitions out of Iraq to Syria and Lebanon,” stated Shaw during an exclusive interview. “I received information from several sources naming the exact Russian units, what they took and where they took both WMD materials and conventional explosives. Moscow made a 2001 agreement with Saddam Hussein to clear up all Russian involvement in WMD systems in Iraq,” stated Shaw. > > Shaw’s assertions match the information provided by U.S. military forces that satellite surveillance showed extensive large-vehicle traffic crossing the Syrian border prior to Operation Iraqi Freedom. I find that Shaw’s claims are very dubious, especially because of the following paragraph of the article: > [@](#): > > There is no question that the Russian effort to remove Iraqi WMD systems was the most successful intelligence operation of the 21st century. The Russians were able to move hundreds of tons of chemical, biological and nuclear materials without being discovered by CIA satellites or NSA radio listening posts. So, is there any weight or truth to these claims? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/2 "2005-03-11T01:50:44Z")
IIRC, these are not new claims. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/3 "2005-03-11T02:14:29Z")
Definitely not. They were reported shortly after the war began. There is no question that there was a large amount of traffic back and forth into Syria just before the war, but as far as I know there is no hard evidence that WMD were involved. For all we know, it could have been Saddam’s favorite sofas and Uday’s large collection of porn. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/4 "2005-03-11T02:20:00Z")
10-27-2004 [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5420001#post5420001](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=5420001#post5420001) As per the source cited by the article’s author: ``` [U.S. Military Checks Satellite Images for Clues About Missing Explosives](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136897,00.htmll) Thursday, October 28, 2004 © 2004 FOX News Network, LLC "Senior sources told FOX News that Shaw actually works in a defense building away from the Pentagon, and it isn't clear how this person has the authority or the knowledge to speak on such a matter. ``` Mr. Shaw worked in the [Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics (AT&L)](http://www.acq.osd.mil/), he is responsible for reforming and improving the export control process so as to measurably improve the security of critical American technologies and manufacturing abilities. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/5 "2005-03-11T02:25:27Z")
fixed foxnews link: [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136897,00.html](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,136897,00.html) Apparently Shaw’s been pimping variations of this story for quite some time. The DoD distances themselves from it each time. From Mauro’s article: Shaw’s assertions match the information provided by U.S. military forces that satellite surveillance showed extensive large-vehicle traffic crossing the Syrian border prior to Operation Iraqi Freedom. The Russians were able to move hundreds of tons of chemical, biological and nuclear materials without being discovered by CIA satellites… “There is a clear sense on how effective they were,” noted Shaw. “The fact that the CIA did not know shows just how successful the Russian operation was.” The proof is that there isn’t anty evidence of it. That’s how sneaky they were. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/6 "2005-03-11T05:30:34Z")
When every weapons inspector has said there were no weapons - not just ‘we didn’t find any weapons,’ but 'the lack of infrastructure says they didn’t exist at all [post ‘95 or whichever year],’ I think that’s a lot more believable than this random guy. What would be in this for Russia and Syria anyway? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/7 "2005-03-11T05:37:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What would be in this for Russia and Syria anyway? The Syrians are Ba’athists, just like Hussein, and the Russians . . . well, jeez, they’re **Russians!** Do I have to spell it out for you?! ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/8 "2005-03-11T10:47:30Z")
As per the article, the CIA isn’t buying it. You decide who you’d rather believe. Mr. Shaw, of whom, it isn’t clear how this person has the authority or the knowledge to speak on such a matter, or the CIA who clearly has the authority or the knowledge to speak on such a matter. How badly do you want to believe? ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/9 "2005-03-11T11:50:10Z")
Stretch that envelope of credibility just a _little_ more and we’ll have them being spirited away by magic pixies in carts pulled by winged horses. When you’re desperate anything seems possible. They weren’t found because they were never there. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/10 "2005-03-11T12:53:54Z")
OOOHH! Them spooky, mystical Russkies! By Og, they can hide under beds & turn invisible with the best of 'em, eh? Making WMDs _totally disappear without a trace_ with their _sooopernatural_ Spetnatz powers. :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: Somebody needs to invite Mr. Shaw to the country, for a long, long, _long_ rest. In a rubber room. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/11 "2005-03-11T13:33:05Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > As per the article, the CIA isn’t buying it. You decide who you’d rather believe. Mr. Shaw, of whom, it isn’t clear how this person has the authority or the knowledge to speak on such a matter, or the CIA who clearly has the authority or the knowledge to speak on such a matter. > > How badly do you want to believe? Shhh!! We need an excuse to invade Syria! And after that, the Russians can move the WMDs to some OTHER country we want to invade! ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-claim-russia-may-have-helped-move-iraqi-wmds/293949/12 "2005-03-11T14:33:44Z")
> [@toadspittle](#): > > Shhh!! We need an excuse to invade Syria! And after that, the Russians can move the WMDs to some OTHER country we want to invade! I’ve heard from a usually reliable source they’re splitting them between Iran, France and Italy.