# A new cliche? Male VS Female **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 26, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-cliche-male-vs-female/522622 "2009-12-26T12:42:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-cliche-male-vs-female/522622/21 "2009-12-28T14:05:59Z")
What was once a reverse-stereotype (woman defeating man at something physical) has now become the stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-cliche-male-vs-female/522622/22 "2009-12-28T14:52:37Z")
hold up. billy vs bobby was absoutely a circus. it was moreso a case of a 30 year old topping a 55 year old than a woman beating a man in tennis. earlier in bobby’s career he challenged and beat another woman handily and figured he’d stoke the sexist fire once last time in a desperate attempt to remain relevant. also… > [@](#): > > I am not making that argument. I don’t believe the sexes are “equal”. I believe that each person has talents and skills that should be used within society. Men are not the same as women and vice versa. I also believe that neither is superior overall to the other, but that each brings their own strengths to bear. i think Ellis Dee was less concerned about the “superior overall” and moreso talking about specific superiorities - changing diapers vs changing tires. there are definitely many specific superiorities between the sexes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-cliche-male-vs-female/522622/23 "2009-12-28T14:54:38Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I think Riggs was an asshole who held a very common belief that women were inherently inferior to men. Did he ever express that belief in any kind of serious forum, or did he only do so while [wearing a shirt with a picture of a (chauvinist) pig on it?](http://bozosapiens.blogspot.com/2009/09/bobby-riggs-hustling.html) I’m just asking here. Yes, he might have held some sexist views, but the match was a stunt. It’s true that it would have been somewhat embarrassing if Riggs won: he was 55 years old and King was in her prime. If King had lost I don’t think the match would be talked about very much. I had forgotten that Riggs beat Margaret Court the same year, and few people remember “Battle of the Sexes II,” when Jimmy Connors beat Martina Navratilova in the 1990s. And unlike King, Navratilova had some advantages built into the rules. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-cliche-male-vs-female/522622/24 "2009-12-28T15:45:32Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > I don’t know if this quite fits, but it reminds me of the first time I noticed this, when Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs challenged each other to a tennis match in 1973 and called it “The Battle of the Sexes.” A big deal was made of this by the media because it was so unusual–up until then, I guess men and women didn’t play against one another in professional tennis. > > I bet you can guess who won. Well, Riggs (who WAS a world champion in his youth, but was 55 years old at the time he played BJ King) had clobbered Margaret Court, who was then one of the top female players in the world, not long before his prime time match with King. That match really didn’t prove much of anything, but it DID give tennis a huge boost in terms of TV viewership. Thing is, even now, I’m guessing 50 year old John McEnroe could probably beat Serena Williams more often than not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-cliche-male-vs-female/522622/25 "2009-12-28T17:09:13Z")
Bobby Riggs wrote a highly entertaining autobiography, which I recommend - _[Court Hustler](http://www.amazon.com/Court-Hustler-Bobby-Riggs/dp/B000O8TMT8)_. From his description, his whole career was setting up these kinds of hypes. He was a highly ranked tennis player - he won Wimbledon (and won over $100,000 in pre-WWII dollars betting on himself) as well as the U.S. Open, twice. He also played a long series of matches against (IIRC) Jack Kramer, who beat him over the series by over 2-1. But it was a big financial success. Riggs was playing Muhammed Ali. He was the Male Chauvinist Pig in the early 70s. An event like this needs a Good Guy and a Bad Guy, like professional wrestling and Presidential elections. But Riggs was short and non-threatening, and had enough charm that he could bring it off without being offensive about it. Billie Jean King got into the spirit of the thing - she arrived for the match on a litter borne by half-naked male carriers. Riggs gave her flowers for Mother’s Day before the match, which she graciously accepted. Of course she creamed him - he was twenty years old than she. What did Riggs have to lose? It was spectacle. It wasn’t serious tennis - nobody in their right mind thinks that women at the super-elite level can compete with men in most of the major professional sports. The more “realistic” male vs. female match in tennis has already been mentioned. Connors was at the tail end of a moderately successful comeback, and Navratilova was at her peak. She started every set up 30-love, and she could hit into the alleys while Connors could not. He beat her in straight sets. Which doesn’t prove anything more than the King-Riggs match. Neither match was played to prove anything. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-cliche-male-vs-female/522622/26 "2009-12-28T17:23:36Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > This is probably the oldest cliche in the book. And it is quite sexist, too, but possibly in the opposite way you might think. > > By having the woman beat the man, they are implying, “Hey, this is an unexpected twist! Since we all know men are superior to women, this twist should surprise and amuse you!” > > If I were a woman (and overly sensitive)(which I’m neither), I’d find it insulting…TRM Exactly. If it weren’t somewhat of a novelty, it would be dropped. Same with the duh duh cleaning product husbands. It’s still a pretty original concept in light of [old ads](http://www.oddee.com/item_96674.aspx) that were hardly as playful. Marketing to women? Making men the butt of jokes (but, usually, only married men – before they get suckered into marriage they’re hot, spy-like car buyers)? Hilarious! But it’s a concept that’s already overstaying its welcome. And for every ‘dumb husband doesn’t know how to clean the toilet’ ad (see Sarah Haskins’ take[here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7vtyheqPVU&feature=related) – highly recommended) you’ve got another 100 wherein a woman [have affairs with cleaning products](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jweF5em1s8&feature=PlayList&p=E2B097F0F49E332C&index=14) or stress over making their homes smell good (air fresheners are totally the new douches). Re: the OP, as someone else mentioned, this seems like a pretty old trope. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-cliche-male-vs-female/522622/27 "2009-12-28T20:34:33Z")
> [@Gary\_Baldy](#): > > The Brady Bunch aired an episode in 1971 where Marcia proclaims, “Anything a man can do, a woman can do better.” I’m sure the origin is even further back. I wouldn’t be surprised if Carry Nation would bust saloons with her axe screaming, “Anything a man can do, a woman can do better.” Well there was “Anything You Can Do” from the musical **Annie Get Your Gun** , originally written in 1946. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Baldy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Gary\_Baldy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Baldy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-cliche-male-vs-female/522622/28 "2009-12-28T21:24:11Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Well there was “Anything You Can Do” from the musical **Annie Get Your Gun** , originally written in 1946. But neither sex could bake a pie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-cliche-male-vs-female/522622.md?page=1)