# "A new high school will have ... places to hide from a mass shooter" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 23, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114 "2019-08-23T16:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/1 "2019-08-23T16:13:14Z")
“A new high school will have sleek classrooms — and places to hide from a mass shooter” > **[A new high school will have sleek classrooms — and places to hide from a mass...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/08/22/new-high-school-will-have-sleek-classrooms-places-hide-mass-shooter/)** > > Trenches in World War I were constructed in zigzagging fashion so an enemy soldier couldn't fire down the length of the trench in a straight line. A similar concept is being used to rethink school hallways. > [@](#): > > A $48 million major construction project at Fruitport [Michigan] High School will add curved hallways to reduce a gunman’s range, jutting barriers to provide cover and egress, and meticulously spaced classrooms that can lock on demand and hide students in the corner, out of a killer’s sight. > … This is where we are now. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/2 "2019-08-23T16:46:32Z")
God bless America! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/3 "2019-08-23T16:48:10Z")
The curved hallway idea is genius. Only problem is, I imagine it would also hamper CCTV surveillance or police trying to respond, as well. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/4 "2019-08-23T16:50:39Z")
Not to mention plain everyday supervision and discipline. All those hiding places will quickly be filled by high school students doing things the Administration would disapprove of like smoking and drinking and sexing. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/5 "2019-08-23T16:51:23Z")
I do worry, though, that by publicizing how “shooting-resistant” such schools are, they are drawing undesirable attention - maybe even inviting a shooter to make this school his preferred target, as a way of showing spite. This isn’t necessarily good to publish all over the news. Kind of like how the Aurora theater gunman may have targeted that theater \*\*\*because \*\*\*it advertised itself as a gun-free zone. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/6 "2019-08-23T16:58:41Z")
I wonder if it would be more cost effective to just invest in bullet-proof school uniforms? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/7 "2019-08-23T17:09:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This is where we are now. ☹ It makes me a little sad as well but I attended a school for a while that had an attached fallout shelter and we did the usual duck-and-cover drills. And I taught in one where one of our 5th graders was busted for selling dope and all of us teachers were given “special training” in spotting such commercial events. What we fear as threats at our schools have changed over the years but I think we may have always had one of some kind. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/8 "2019-08-23T17:12:10Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I do worry, though, that by publicizing how “shooting-resistant” such schools are, they are drawing undesirable attention - maybe even inviting a shooter to make this school his preferred target, as a way of showing spite. That was my first thought too. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/9 "2019-08-23T17:19:23Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > It makes me a little sad as well but I attended a school for a while that had an attached fallout shelter and we did the usual duck-and-cover drills. And I taught in one where one of our 5th graders was busted for selling dope and all of us teachers were given “special training” in spotting such commercial events. What we fear as threats at our schools have changed over the years but I think we may have always had one of some kind. ☹ I thought about the duck and cover thing, too. But the real and immediate threat of today’s school shootings trumps (excuse the expression) the bygone potential threat of a Soviet bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/10 "2019-08-23T17:34:28Z")
Indeed we may be coming full circle. From “[Design Secrets of Medieval Castles](http://medievalcastles.stormthecastle.com/essays/design-secrets-of-medieval-castles.htm):” > [@](#): > > Medieval Castles were more than just large fortresses with massive stone walls. They were ingeniously designed fortifications that used many brilliant and creative ways to protect their inhabitants from attacking enemies. > > A lot of thought, ingenuity, and planning went into the design of Medieval Castles. Everything from the outer walls to the shapes and location of stairwells were very carefully planned to provide maximum protection to the inhabitants. Here are some of the unique and lesser-known secrets of medieval castle designs. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/11 "2019-08-23T17:48:51Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The curved hallway idea is genius. Only problem is, I imagine it would also hamper CCTV surveillance or police trying to respond, as well. How is it genius? It’s pretty rare for WW-I aircraft to strafe hallways. The [del] students [/del] shooters are in no way restricted from moving through a hallway. It’s not like they can’t work out the best way to achieve their goal and are suddenly flummoxed by a curved wall. > [@Eonwe](#): > > I wonder if it would be more cost effective to just invest in bullet-proof school uniforms? probably a lot more than it would cost to teach kids not to kill their classmates. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/12 "2019-08-23T18:28:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How is it genius? It’s pretty rare for WW-I aircraft to strafe hallways. The [del] students [/del] shooters are in no way restricted from moving through a hallway. It’s not like they can’t work out the best way to achieve their goal and are suddenly flummoxed by a curved wall. Curved hallways mean a shorter range of vision for shooters and more time moving to find targets. More time moving is less time shooting and more time for responders to arrive. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/13 "2019-08-23T19:06:14Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Curved hallways mean a shorter range of vision for shooters and more time moving to find targets. More time moving is less time shooting and more time for responders to arrive. That doesn’t make any sense at all. Distance isn’t a factor in close-order random shootings. Curved walls aren’t going to stop even the slowest person from firing as many rounds as can be fired as they walk. Not one person saved. If anything it will delay first responders from engaging at a distance. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/14 "2019-08-23T19:18:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That doesn’t make any sense at all. Distance isn’t a factor in close-order random shootings. Curved walls aren’t going to stop even the slowest person from firing as many rounds as can be fired as they walk. Not one person saved. The curved walls mean that more victims will be out of sight. In a straight 100-foot long hallway, the gunman can theoretically mow down anyone in the entire hallway, especially if he has an automatic weapon. With a curving hallway, the gunman would be unable to shoot anyone who is, say, more than 20 feet ahead of him at any given time. That means a few more seconds for the would-be victims located in the 80 feet beyond his vision to scatter, flee and take cover. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/15 "2019-08-23T19:20:45Z")
For another example, you might read about how Sandy Hook Elementary School was [rebuilt](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/30/nyregion/new-sandy-hook-school-is-ready-nearly-4-years-after-massacre.html). The classroom doors can be locked from the inside or the outside, the windows adjacent to those doors are bulletproof, and the landscaping is designed to keep people away. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/16 "2019-08-23T19:32:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That doesn’t make any sense at all. Distance isn’t a factor in close-order random shootings. Curved walls aren’t going to stop even the slowest person from firing as many rounds as can be fired as they walk. Not one person saved. You must have missed the original point. You can’t effectively shoot people you can’t see. If they’re around the curve, they might only be thirty feet away and still safe. In a straight hallways, that safe distance can be a hundred feet or more. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/17 "2019-08-23T19:33:14Z")
How many school shooters come from the same school that they are shooting up, and thus will be able to plan around such obstacles? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/18 "2019-08-23T19:42:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How many school shooters come from the same school that they are shooting up, and thus will be able to plan around such obstacles? Well, the point of such obstacles is that they can’t really be planned around. A shooter may know them but simply be forced to accept their effect on him. A curving hallway limits the shooter’s shooting no matter how familiar he is with them. A bank robber may know that the bank vault is secured with such-and-such a security system. That knowledge doesn’t necessarily make the robbery any more do-able. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/19 "2019-08-23T19:46:23Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > You must have missed the original point. You can’t effectively shoot people you can’t see. If they’re around the curve, they might only be thirty feet away and still safe. In a straight hallways, that safe distance can be a hundred feet or more. No, I got the idea. It just isn’t practical. If a shooter was trying to assassinate one specific person it might help that person. But if the idea is to create a stack of bodies then the fantasy begins up close. There’s no point shooting someone far away when there are people nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/20 "2019-08-23T20:03:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No, I got the idea. It just isn’t practical. > > If a shooter was trying to assassinate one specific person it might help that person. But if the idea is to create a stack of bodies then the fantasy begins up close. There’s no point shooting someone far away when there are people nearby. You should call this school and/or the contractor that consulted on security, and tell them that their idea just won’t work. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114.md?page=2)