# "A new high school will have ... places to hide from a mass shooter" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 23, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114 "2019-08-23T16:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/21 "2019-08-23T20:28:38Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > You should call this school and/or the contractor that consulted on security, and tell them that their idea just won’t work. or maybe a book on the Maginot Line. If they’re using a WW-I strategy they can skip to the end and see how it worked out. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/22 "2019-08-23T20:32:16Z")
I hope they have cameras covering the entire hallway. It would certainly help to have a video feed for police in case of a incident. Knowing what’s happening inside the building makes all the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/23 "2019-08-23T20:34:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > or maybe a book on the Maginot Line. If they’re using a WW-I strategy they can skip to the end and see how it worked out. Let’s leave out the snark - just what are you suggesting instead? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/24 "2019-08-23T20:43:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I hope they have cameras covering the entire hallway. > > It would certainly help to have a video feed for police in case of a incident. Knowing what’s happening inside the building makes all the difference. Unless those cameras are being monitored in real time, instead of being reviewed at the end of the day/week/month/year, then all you are doing is ensuring that the shooter gets the exposure she/he craves. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/25 "2019-08-23T20:55:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Unless those cameras are being monitored in real time, instead of being reviewed at the end of the day/week/month/year, then all you are doing is ensuring that the shooter gets the exposure she/he craves. I don’t quite follow. No matter what, a school shooter rockets to fame the following day in TV and the headlines, police footage or not. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/26 "2019-08-23T20:58:54Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I don’t quite follow. No matter what, a school shooter rockets to fame the following day in TV and the headlines, police footage or not. An unmonitored camera makes the News the next day, but a _monitored_ camera gives someone a chance to hit the panic button _before_ shots ring out. Cameras can be a big help, but only if you pay someone to watch in real time. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/27 "2019-08-23T23:12:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Well, the point of such obstacles is that they can’t really be planned around. A shooter may know them but simply be forced to accept their effect on him. A curving hallway limits the shooter’s shooting no matter how familiar he is with them. It would change the shooter’s approach. Instead of the ‘wander the halls’ technique, wait for a school assembly or large sporting event. Or the gunman could lock himself inside a full classroom where victims can’t escape. Or just set up outside and pull the fire alarm. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/28 "2019-08-23T23:49:57Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Let’s leave out the snark - just what are you suggesting instead? It was rebound snark and as long as someone does it to me I’ll return the volley. I already made my suggestion in post 11. Teach kids not to kill people. Very little cost involved. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/29 "2019-08-23T23:51:26Z")
Do you think we haven’t been doing that for generations? What have we been doing wrong? Maybe we need to keep kids from being \*able \*to kill masses of people. And not just kids, either. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/30 "2019-08-24T00:13:42Z")
From the outside (I’m in the UK) this is very sad. American children are being taught that school shootings are simply a part of their life. All that can be done is to minimise casualties, with ideas such as: - spend taxpayers’ money on buildings with hiding places - arm the teachers - give children special drills v armed opponents - have an armed guard in every school ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/31 "2019-08-24T00:17:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I already made my suggestion in post 11. Teach kids not to kill people. Very little cost involved. I know you mean well, but is there any evidence that this approach works? In countries with fewer (or no) school shootings, the most common factor is gun control. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/32 "2019-08-24T00:24:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was rebound snark and as long as someone does it to me I’ll return the volley. > > I already made my suggestion in post 11. Teach kids not to kill people. Very little cost involved. Are you serious? Do you think that had Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold only had a class in Why Killing Your Classmates is Wrong, the Columbine massacre would not have happened? I’ve never had such a class and somehow I managed not to do such a horrible thing, as have most people. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/33 "2019-08-24T01:05:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The curved hallway idea is genius. The jutting barriers along the walls don’t get there due in the article. They are even more works of genius, IMO. I’d assume easier and cheaper to implement than curving construction and an option for retrofit on older buildings. Bullets that hit hard surfaces, like the common cinder block walls, at an angle shallow enough to ricochet come off at even shallower angles. It’s an inelastic collision. All the close quarter battle training I participated in described the effect as “hot walls.” That area near the walls is going to be filled with rounds from misses. The natural reaction for is to hang out closer to walls even when it’s not between them and the shooter. It feels safer being near hard durable stuff than exposed in the middle of the hallway. It’s not. It takes training that the odd active shooter drill probably isn’t enough to correct in order to stay away from the deadly area near the wall. This is putting bullet sponges along the walls to stop the hot wall effect. No training required. It also protects people trying to escape through a door or around a corner who have been staying away from the walls. That escape around the corner is great. It has a problem in most buildings. You have to cross the most dangerous part of the hallway before you get to safety. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/34 "2019-08-24T01:32:42Z")
> [@glee](#): > > From the outside (I’m in the UK) this is very sad. > > American children are being taught that school shootings are simply a part of their life. > All that can be done is to minimise casualties, with ideas such as: > > - spend taxpayers’ money on buildings with hiding places > - arm the teachers > - give children special drills v armed opponents > - have an armed guard in every school It is what it is **glee**. The occasional massacre of school children is something they’ve accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/35 "2019-08-24T01:52:19Z")
We had a little something back in the day called “windows.” But trap doors, bookcases that rotate or slide away, hidden passageways, chambers of secrets, they all sound like fun and good places for madmen to hide. And it’s all sure to make kids smarter. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/36 "2019-08-24T02:04:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How many school shooters come from the same school that they are shooting up, and thus will be able to plan around such obstacles? Truthfully, a huge percentage if not the outright majority, because most “school shootings” are suicides and/or targeted, with (a) victim(s) who may well have had it coming and this was the act of a desperate person. Most crimes of ALL types go on between people who know each other. A building constructed to be shooter-proof sounds like it might be a potential firetrap. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/37 "2019-08-24T02:10:48Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I wonder if it would be more cost effective to just invest in bullet-proof school uniforms? There is no wearable soft armor capable of protecting against a bullet fired from a rifle. Hard, solid strike plates are necessary for that. Bullet-proof clothing would be useless. If anything, a SAPI plate added to a back back might make some sense, but certainly not bullet proof clothing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/38 "2019-08-24T03:10:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Do you think we haven’t been doing that for generations? I came from a generation where 1 person stayed home and raised the children. It was considered a real job and taken seriously. I went to a parochial school where teachers focused on social skills. It was a coordinated effort between teacher and parents. We as a society have not made adjustments to the changes in family structure. the social training has taken a back seat to an amazing amount of media violence from television, movies, games, and the internet. I can still remember as a kid watching a movie on TV where someone was brutally killed and thinking this type of entertainment was cumulatively harmful. We are the environment we grow up in. If human life isn’t valued then no amount of preemptive cocooning will correct that. We exist on the collective benevolence of others. The shooter in Dayton had posted a list of people to kill and rape while he was in school. It wasn’t properly addressed. After graduating he openly talked about his fascination for mass killings with friends and he played in a band that was flat-out morally bankrupt. the problem to solve is mental health. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/39 "2019-08-24T03:58:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Kind of like how the Aurora theater gunman may have targeted that theater \*\*\*because \*\*\*it advertised itself as a gun-free zone. :rolleyes: A gun-free zone with hundreds of distracted people, in a darkened, noisy area with limited means of escape. If everyone in that theater had been armed, it wouldn’t have stopped him. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114/40 "2019-08-24T05:11:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I came from a generation where 1 person stayed home and raised the children. It was considered a real job and taken seriously. I went to a parochial school where teachers focused on social skills. It was a coordinated effort between teacher and parents. > > We as a society have not made adjustments to the changes in family structure. the social training has taken a back seat to an amazing amount of media violence from television, movies, games, and the internet. > > I can still remember as a kid watching a movie on TV where someone was brutally killed and thinking this type of entertainment was cumulatively harmful. > > We are the environment we grow up in. If human life isn’t valued then no amount of preemptive cocooning will correct that. We exist on the collective benevolence of others. > > The shooter in Dayton had posted a list of people to kill and rape while he was in school. It wasn’t properly addressed. After graduating he openly talked about his fascination for mass killings with friends and he played in a band that was flat-out morally bankrupt. the problem to solve is mental health. So what generation was in charge where all these school shootings started again? Preach on about moral bankruptcy all you want, but participation trophies were handed out by parents to avoid having to deal with upset children, not because those children all of a sudden decided to give themselves trophies. That you can complain about “human life isn’t valued” while supporting a party killing children in concentration camps on the southern border is, in all honesty, sad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-high-school-will-have-places-to-hide-from-a-mass-shooter/839114.md?page=3)