# A new name for black people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154 "2002-04-12T02:11:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/1 "2002-04-12T02:11:33Z")
Actually, it’s an old one. There’s been a lot of problems trying to find a good name for black people. Most names have a valid objections. “Black,” has some negative connotations. Black is the color of evil. Darth Vader wore black, the bad guy wears black. If there are black people and white people, who do you think the good guy is? I wouldn’t want to be “black.” So, I see the problem with “black.” “Colored” has negative connotations as well. Their not normal people, they’ve been “colored.” They’ve been marked or changed. Plus, it’s reminiscent of the whole segregation thing. Same with being a “person of color.” “African American,” or “Afro-American” just don’t sound right. They’re artificial. They’re not even accurate. Most black Americans are really mixed. Is Tiger Woods an “African American?” If I understand it, his dad had some white blood and his Mom was Asian. Is he an Afro-Asian American? Tri-Continental? Most black people aren’t really African. They’re just American. If we start naming everybody by what continent they’re ancestors come from, things are going to get complicated. There’s somethings like “Mulatto,” and “Redbone,” and “negro” that aren’t very good, as well as the perjoratives. “Chocolate?” Nyahhh. Then what does that make me, a perpermint? I guess it would make Peppermint Patty somewhat ahead of her time, but naming various ethnic types after candy is just too silly. “Black” tends to stick around in spite of its problems because it sounds good, it’s basic, simple, and descriptive. We need something with the good qualities of “black” without the negative undertones. Well, I found it. Monday I was watching “Antiques Roadshow” on PBS and they had an old Seaman’s Certificate of Freedom or somesuch for a “Negro” that dated back to the 1700s. The man is described in the certificate, and they call the color of his skin “Sable.” “Sable” is accurate, it’s descriptive, it’s short, it’s catchy, it’s kind of cool. It’s not objectionable. It even accurately describes the skin color better than “black.” If I was black I wouldn’t mind having being “Sable.” Maybe if Jesse Jackson had come up with “Sable” instead of “Afro-American,” the world would be a better place. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/2 "2002-04-12T02:20:32Z")
Little black sable. Oh, their going to love that!:rolleyes: Didn’t something close to that get a restaurant closed down? Anyway, you’re not black and neither am I , so let’s face it, nothing we do is going to make them overly happy until we invent time travel and can change the past. Until then, I’ll bet we’re not allowed to decide what they get called either. You think black people are going to start calling themselves a term a white boy thought up? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/3 "2002-04-12T02:22:49Z")
For shame, **Scylla**. Trying to name an entire group of people after a weasel - Just what sort of hidden agenda is this 😃 ? [http://www.furopia.com/mustelidae/martes\_zibellina\_zibellina.htm](http://www.furopia.com/mustelidae/martes_zibellina_zibellina.htm) - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/4 "2002-04-12T02:25:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > Until then, I’ll bet we’re not allowed to decide what they get called either. That is exactly right. That is also exactly how it should be. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/5 "2002-04-12T02:29:06Z")
Hmmm lessee There are [sable goats](http://www.oingo.com/topic/248/248473.html) , there are the carnivourous mammals that are farmed, slaughtered for their pelts and draped over the shoulders of the well-to-do. Nope, can’t see any offence there, the divide between the sables and blonds should be reconciled very quickly. BTW, my dictionary give the colour sable as being a “of a grayish yellowish brown.” (didn’t Stevie Nicks use the phrase “sable on blonde” in one of her lyrics?) ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/6 "2002-04-12T02:29:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > \*\*Little black sable. Oh, their going to love that!:rolleyes: > Didn’t something close to that get a restaurant closed down? \*\* Beats me, and I don’t get the reference. > [@](#): > > \*\*Anyway, you’re not black and neither am I , so let’s face it, nothing we do is going to make them overly happy until we invent time travel and can change the past. \*\* ::shrug:: I just thought it sounded good. I wasn’t trying to heal the world or anything. > [@](#): > > \*\*Until then, I’ll bet we’re not allowed to decide what they get called either. You think black people are going to start calling themselves a term a white boy thought up? \*\* I’m not trying to decide or tell anybody. It’s a suggestion, and I don’t really think that my race is germaine to whether it’s a good one or not. And, I didn’t think it up. It’s been around at least since the 1700s. For all I know, the seaman filled out the form himself and put “Sable” down as his skin color. I don’t know what the color of the skin was of the person who first used the appelation. I’d hardly deserve the credit. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/7 "2002-04-12T02:33:16Z")
Tammerlane: Those Sables are tough, ferocious, and highly intelligent predators. Wooly: Sable Goats, huh? Didn’t know that one either. Goats are kinda sexy though, so what’s the prob? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/8 "2002-04-12T02:38:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by woolly \* > Hmmm lessee > > There are [sable goats](http://www.oingo.com/topic/248/248473.html) , there are the carnivourous mammals that are farmed, slaughtered for their pelts and draped over the shoulders of the well-to-do. Also Sable Antelope and Sable Mice. Probably others as well. But the weasel gets pride of place since it simply, a “sable”. > [@](#): > > BTW, my dictionary give the colour sable as being a “of a grayish yellowish brown.” Curious. Mine doesn’t. It is usually defined ( aside from the weasel ) as “black” or “dark”. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/9 "2002-04-12T02:40:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > Tammerlane: > > Those Sables are tough, ferocious, and highly intelligent predators. Yes indeedy. And they make a damn fine stole, to boot 😃 . - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/10 "2002-04-12T02:41:07Z")
There’s also “white mice,” and Moby Dick was the Great white whale, and white’s the color of puss. Nothing’s perfect. The biggest problem I can find with “Sable” is that it’s synonymous with “Taurus” in Fordspeak. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/11 "2002-04-12T02:47:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > **Little black sable. Oh, their going to love that!:rolleyes: > Didn’t something close to that get a restaurant closed down?** That would be [Sambo’s](http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/28/sambo.revival/). ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/12 "2002-04-12T02:49:47Z")
Hm, and here I thought a sable was just a cheap mink. That has possibilities. “Some chicks f_ck like minks, but black chicks f_ck like CHEAP minks!” I’ll bet I see that on a bumper sticker at my next Klan rally. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/13 "2002-04-12T02:53:00Z")
Cranky: IIRC correctly, Sable’s much more expensive then mink. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/14 "2002-04-12T02:54:10Z")
By little black sable I was using a play on words. There used to be a restraunt called Sambos, and they once had a deal where they gave away little black sambo books and dolls. It got them into all sorts of trouble Anyway, the place was pretty much like a Dennys, so it was no loss when most (all?) of them went out of bees wax. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/15 "2002-04-12T03:02:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Cranky: > > IIRC correctly, Sable’s much more expensive then mink. \*\* Oh. Well, I think the important thing is that we’ve now given anti-fur activists an entree into this thread. Good. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/16 "2002-04-12T03:03:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Cranky: > > IIRC correctly, Sable’s much more expensive then mink. \*\* **Scylla** is correct. Check out these price ranges and wince along with me: [http://www.furs.com/price.html](http://www.furs.com/price.html) - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/17 "2002-04-12T03:08:04Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t want to be “black.” \*\* I wouldn’t want to be “white”. All bland things are white. Marshmellow fluff. Wonder bread. Cream of wheat. Grits without the pepper, salt, and butter. Plus, there’s the whole paleness thing. Who would want to be “white”? So if I were you, I would focus on renaming white people rather than black people. The latter’s been through enough name-changes already. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/18 "2002-04-12T03:10:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by monstro \* > > * * * > > I wouldn’t want to be “white”. All bland things are white. Marshmellow fluff. Wonder bread. Cream of wheat. Grits without the pepper, salt, and butter. Plus, there’s the whole paleness thing. Who would want to be “white”? > > So if I were you, I would focus on renaming white people rather than black people. The latter’s been through enough name-changes already. \*\* You got a point, there. How about “Mink?” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/19 "2002-04-12T03:21:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > You got a point, there. > > How about “Mink?” Nah. Crayola renamed their “Flesh-colored” crayons “Peach”. I like peaches. I say we go with peach. Peach people - It works for me 😉 . - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154/20 "2002-04-12T03:24:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Actually, it’s an old one. > > There’s been a lot of problems trying to find a good name for black people. Most names have a valid objections. > > “Black,” has some negative connotations. Black is the color of evil. Darth Vader wore black, the bad guy wears black. If there are black people and white people, who do you think the good guy is? > > I wouldn’t want to be “black.” > > So, I see the problem with “black.” > > “Colored” has negative connotations as well. Their not normal people, they’ve been “colored.” They’ve been marked or changed. Plus, it’s reminiscent of the whole segregation thing. Same with being a “person of color.” > > “African American,” or “Afro-American” just don’t sound right. They’re artificial. They’re not even accurate. Most black Americans are really mixed. Is Tiger Woods an “African American?” If I understand it, his dad had some white blood and his Mom was Asian. Is he an Afro-Asian American? Tri-Continental? Most black people aren’t really African. They’re just American. If we start naming everybody by what continent they’re ancestors come from, things are going to get complicated. > > There’s somethings like “Mulatto,” and “Redbone,” and “negro” that aren’t very good, as well as the perjoratives. > > “Chocolate?” Nyahhh. Then what does that make me, a perpermint? I guess it would make Peppermint Patty somewhat ahead of her time, but naming various ethnic types after candy is just too silly. > > “Black” tends to stick around in spite of its problems because it sounds good, it’s basic, simple, and descriptive. > > We need something with the good qualities of “black” without the negative undertones. > Well, I found it. > Monday I was watching “Antiques Roadshow” on PBS and they had an old Seaman’s Certificate of Freedom or somesuch for a “Negro” that dated back to the 1700s. > > The man is described in the certificate, and they call the color of his skin “Sable.” > > “Sable” is accurate, it’s descriptive, it’s short, it’s catchy, it’s kind of cool. It’s not objectionable. > > It even accurately describes the skin color better than “black.” > > If I was black I wouldn’t mind having being “Sable.” > > Maybe if Jesse Jackson had come up with “Sable” instead of “Afro-American,” the world would be a better place. \*\* Why not call them ‘people’? Because that’s what they are. Why sould we have to find a name for them, as if they are objects. We don’t need to find a name for white people. so why black peolple? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-name-for-black-people/103154.md?page=2)