# A New Perspective on Homophobia (for me, anyway) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830 "2003-07-16T07:19:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![finoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b487fb/32.png) [@finoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finoa)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/41 "2003-07-17T05:30:22Z")
**Priam** , you are quite correct and those possibilities had escaped my consideration. I had heard of such behavior from some of my gay friends but had never thought of applying it to my situation. Any further perspectives on this from our gay Dopers? ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/42 "2003-07-17T07:18:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*There really ought to be a “So you’re a straight guy. Things you don’t have to worry about from your friendly neighborhood gay guy” list. Not unlike my failed Bisexual FAQ. \*\* And it should be distributed, widely and freely. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/43 "2003-07-17T10:52:57Z")
When I first started hanging out here, I wound up reading **Esprix** ’s Ask The Gay Guy Threads, and they did a lot to dispel my ignorance. I’d still recommend them to new Dopers – they’ve got a lot of this stuff in them. I’ve learned a lot reading this thread, too. By the way, **GMRyujin** , in a more pleasant mood, if a fellow noted that a homosexual guy was checking him out and not getting freaked out by it, or at least trying not to, I might well say,“Why not? You’re a good-looking guy!” CJ ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/44 "2003-07-17T15:26:30Z")
My upbringing was very gay-friendly. I still remember my parents sitting me down at a pretty young age and explaining homosexuality when our church (UCC) was having an Open and Affirming vote, which was an official acceptance of homosexuals (and others who have been traditionally shunned by some churches). I remember meeting people who I later found out were gay, but I still had no personal concept of it. And when I actually came to face with homosexuality, I reacted very poorly. For example, I remember the first time I was hit on by a guy (few years ago, winter after my first year of college). It was really strange and disturbing. Partly it was the fact that someone was _really_ hitting on me that really threw me. I had never been aggressively persued by a girl before (delightfully, that has since changed :D), so it was an uncomfortable experience. But there was also the added fear of being thought “gay.” In high school, I had long hair and was, if not effeminate, certainly dainty. I was taunted for it, and all of a sudden being around gay people sort of freaked me out. I think I sort of squacked that I was flattered but uninterested and lurched over to the other side of the party I was at. The first time that I found out a friend of mine was gay, I also reacted badly. I had no idea what to say. I felt uncomfortable and the longer I didn’t respond, the worse it got. I ended up barely speaking to him until the next day. Luckily, this wasn’t a pivotal moment for him; he wasn’t just coming out. The next day I apologized to him for the ass I’d been, and we had some laughs. He was actually really surprised that I didn’t already know and, looking back, I am too. Anyway. Just a few examples of how, even though I thought I had a pretty enlightened perspective, I acted in a somewhat homophobic manner. I can only imagine how messed up people who have homophobic parents, teachers, or ministers could be. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/45 "2003-07-17T15:40:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priam \* > \*\* > 2) He could’ve been hoping to get _you_ alone for various reasons, ranging from sexual assault to even hate crime (after all, you would’ve taken him up on what was clearly a gay advance). Motives are impossible to predict, but it remains a possibility. \*\* This was my suspicion as well. Throughout **finoa** ’s post I had that horror movie reaction where I wanted to shout “No! Don’t go out to the desert with him! He’s going to kill you!” at the screen. It was a big relief to me when I got to the part where **finoa** backed out and so escaped what I cannot help but fear would have been a very ugly, violent situation. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/46 "2003-07-17T15:58:51Z")
I wonder, reading this, if there’s not something else going on here, too. Homophobes fear the feminine because it’s something that, to their minds is weak and inferior. But doesn’t this require that they really idealize ‘masculine’ qualities, too? I was reading _The Celluloid Closet_ and in it, the writer talked about how romance in the movies was sort of obligatory, while the hero’s closest relationships were with his male buddies. The relationship with the heroine was perfunctory and tossed in there with the least amount of effort. There was a certain nobility to the hero’s feelings about his buddies that was lacking in his pro forma relationships with women. I see that happening with some homophobic guys—flowers, candy, all those gestures that are sort of generic. Meanwhile the guy doesn’t display any respect for women at all. He doesn’t hate them, you know. But all his gestures of affection are sort of…generic. He’s passionate about his buddies. He’d died for them, he spends all his time with them, he talks with them, but women are just sort of an…obligation. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/47 "2003-07-17T17:31:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > **I’ve learned a lot reading this thread, too. By the way, GMRyujin, in a more pleasant mood, if a fellow noted that a homosexual guy was checking him out and not getting freaked out by it, or at least trying not to, I might well say,"Why not? You’re a good-looking guy!"** You might well break dude’s fragile little mind! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/48 "2003-07-17T20:10:59Z")
I’ll have to find an online cite for this, but I remember reading the book _Baiters, Bashers & Bigots_ and they found that a relatively high percentage of people who acted in a homophobic manner also harbored their own homosexual feelings. Food for thought. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/49 "2003-07-17T20:23:32Z")
[cite](http://outrage.nabumedia.com/pressrelease.asp?ID=114) (fwiw) ---
**Author:** ![finoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b487fb/32.png) [@finoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finoa)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/50 "2003-07-17T20:37:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lamia \* > \*\*This was my suspicion as well. Throughout **finoa** ’s post I had that horror movie reaction where I wanted to shout “No! Don’t go out to the desert with him! He’s going to kill you!” at the screen. It was a big relief to me when I got to the part where **finoa** backed out and so escaped what I cannot help but fear would have been a very ugly, violent situation. \*\* Until **Priam** mentioned it, I had never thought Juan was up to anything nefarious. **Lamia** , your reaction caused me to re-read my post and I admit that it does sound a little bit dodgy. In all my experiences in the desert, neither I nor any of my friends had come across anything remotely dangerous but then again we weren’t really on the lookout for it; we were more concerned with building a bonfire and cracking open a few beers kinda like a beach party without the beach. Or the crabs. Or the girls in bikinis. As to the causes of homophobia, something that occurred to me the other day was that some people need to feel superior to other people. Allowing same-sex marriage for instance has stirred up the fundies something powerful. You might hear “Heterosexual marriage is under attack” with the obvious implication that the gubmint and that Damned Atheist Supreme Court hates heterosexuals. The underlying context is that if same sex marriage is sanctioned by the gov’t, gays come a step closer to being recognized as equals, something the fundies don’t want to recognize. On preview, **Esprix** I remember seeing a similar article about a study which exposed a test group of men hooked up with all kinds of fancy, electrode-y wires and such to homo-erotic media. Incidence of sexual arousal was higher amongst those who self-described as homophobic. I’ll attempt to locate a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/51 "2003-07-17T20:55:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > **I’ll have to find an online cite for this, but I remember reading the book _Baiters, Bashers & Bigots_ and they found that a relatively high percentage of people who acted in a homophobic manner also harbored their own homosexual feelings.** I’ve read that as well (that theory, not the book) and it would seem to tie in. They’re ashamed of it, and so try to hide it by lashing out, or they acknowledge the feelings, but to prove to themselves that they’re NOT GAY, they get all homophobic. ---
**Author:** ![finoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b487fb/32.png) [@finoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finoa)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/52 "2003-07-17T21:12:22Z")
**IzzyR**'s link helped me find the URL=http://www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html]study I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![finoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b487fb/32.png) [@finoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finoa)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/53 "2003-07-17T21:16:02Z")
Must . . .learn. . .how . . .to . . .use vB!:smack: ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/54 "2003-07-17T21:44:41Z")
I look at men like I do my 80 year old grandma. The chemistry just isn’t there. Say somebodies old 80 year old grandma came on to you it just feels yuck. It is the same thing with men. I think homophobia is a natural. It is a survial tool. The way I feel toward gay men is more instict than hate or dislike. I can’t explain it, it is a chemisty thing. ---
**Author:** ![finoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b487fb/32.png) [@finoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/finoa)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/55 "2003-07-17T23:15:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BeatenMan \* > I look at men like I do my 80 year old grandma. The chemistry just isn’t there. Say somebodies old 80 year old grandma came on to you it just feels yuck. It is the same thing with men. I think homophobia is a natural. It is a survial tool. The way I feel toward gay men is more instict than hate or dislike. I can’t explain it, it is a chemisty thing. That analogy holds water only so far **BeatenMan**. Would you beat up an 80 year old grandma for getting fresh with you? Would you accuse her of being a degenerate? Is she going to hell? Would you go out looking for 80 year old grandmas who get fresh with younger men so you can beat them up? Let’s take your analogy down a notch. You say it’s a chemistry thing. Suppose a woman who doesn’t happen to be your type hits on you (she’s too old, too young, not very pretty, whatever). What do you do? Any decent man tries to find a way to say no politely. (Sorry, I have a girlfriend; No thanks; I have to go home to floss my cat, whatever). Should you feel threatened or angry that somebody who’s not your type approached you? Not in the least. Your mama taught you to treat others the way you would want to be treated, that is to say _Be Nice to People_ . unless you enjoy being treated like dirt Homophobia isn’t something to make excuses for. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/56 "2003-07-17T23:35:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BeatenMan \* > \*\*I look at men like I do my 80 year old grandma. The chemistry just isn’t there. Say somebodies old 80 year old grandma came on to you it just feels yuck. It is the same thing with men. I think homophobia is a natural. It is a survial tool. The way I feel toward gay men is more instict than hate or dislike. I can’t explain it, it is a chemisty thing. \*\* I think it’s much more likely a cutural or learned behavior than a chemistry or instinctual thing. But never mind that. What I want to know is, how in the world could it be a “survival tool”? (Assuming that’s what you meant by “survial”.) ---
**Author:** ![Salieri2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Salieri2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salieri2)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/57 "2003-07-18T00:55:24Z")
Damn, this is an interesting thread! In college, a terrific professor of mine (who happened to be gay) once told me he worked around a bunch of straight men who were wary of him: “For some reason, I think they thought they were irresistible.” It has stuck with me, this idea that homophobia can be coupled with a certain kind of ego. The notion that he wouldn’t _want_ to hit on them because he _didn’t find them attractive_ was completely alien to them. Of course, perhaps they shunned him because he would occasionally pop out with comments like this one about Freddie Mercury: “I would have undressed him with my tongue.” C’mon! Freddie Mercury? a) the moustache, c) _the teeth!!!_, c) the lips! Maybe they were just incredibly shocked by his poor taste, and homophobia didn’t enter into it. Perhaps they were connoisseurs of male beauty 😉 . ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/58 "2003-07-18T01:54:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by finoa \* > \*\*That analogy holds water only so far **BeatenMan**. Would you beat up an 80 year old grandma for getting fresh with you? Would you accuse her of being a degenerate? Is she going to hell? Would you go out looking for 80 year old grandmas who get fresh with younger men so you can beat them up? > > Let’s take your analogy down a notch. You say it’s a chemistry thing. Suppose a woman who doesn’t happen to be your type hits on you (she’s too old, too young, not very pretty, whatever). What do you do? Any decent man tries to find a way to say no politely. (Sorry, I have a girlfriend; No thanks; I have to go home to floss my cat, whatever). Should you feel threatened or angry that somebody who’s not your type approached you? Not in the least. Your mama taught you to treat others the way you would want to be treated, that is to say _Be Nice to People_ . unless you enjoy being treated like dirt Homophobia isn’t something to make excuses for. \*\* I was tring to explain why I am not attracted to gay men. This does not mean I would ever hurt a gay person just because they are differant. I have no ill will or bad feeling toward gay men. I just get these vibes. Gay men that don’t act femmine I have no problem with. What I meant as far as it being a survivial tool. Natural selection prefered men who were attacted to women. I must say being around gay men does make me feel uncomfortable just like being around a group of convicts or a group of low life criminals. I don’t like being around loud talking black people. I don’t being around snooty rich white people. I don’t like being aroud noisy teenagers. There is a lot of people I don’t like being around. I myself am kind of a social missfit and alot of people don’t like to be around me. This is how life is. Not everybody will accept you. THATS JUST HOW IT IS. ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/59 "2003-07-18T02:14:54Z")
I other thing I must mention before I am beaten up again. That gay anal sex seems very brutal. And I wonder who would stand or lie there and take it if they don’t have to. Staight men look at anal sex on another man as a kind of dommination. In groups of chimpanzees the ruling male which is the only one that has sex with the females. He acts like he is having sex with all the other males in the group to show he is in control over the group and they can’t have his females. I telling you it’s more than just learned behavior. It’s something hard wired. ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/60 "2003-07-18T02:15:44Z")
ONE other thing I must mention before I am beaten up again. That gay anal sex seems very brutal. And I wonder who would stand or lie there and take it if they don’t have to. Staight men look at anal sex on another man as a kind of dommination. In groups of chimpanzees the ruling male which is the only one that has sex with the females. He acts like he is having sex with all the other males in the group to show he is in control over the group and they can’t have his females. I telling you it’s more than just learned behavior. It’s something hard wired. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830.md?page=4)