# A New Perspective on Homophobia (for me, anyway) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830 "2003-07-16T07:19:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/101 "2003-07-19T14:51:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bren\_Cameron \* > \*\*In other words, sex is a dominance thing, having sex with a woman is dominating her. This is the way it’s meant to be, but it’s wrong if it happens to you. You wouldn’t like it, but women, for some unkown reason, like to be dominated and humiliated? Why do you think this would be an acceptable state of affairs for women? > > You’ve got a few things to learn, dear. I hope, for the sake of the women you may become involved with in the future, that you learn them soon. > > You have, by the way, absolutely no way of knowing whether your feelings are hardwired or learned. Just because they feel very strong and you don’t know where they come from doesn’t mean they’re hardwired. \*\* I do think it is a dominance if it involves anal sex which is painfull to most straight people. The anus was not supposed to be a sex organ. Most people men and women find anal sex to be a painful violation of their body. This is a fact. Many men equate anal sex as being violent and see gay men the same as some bully going around wanting to “punch them out”. Most straight men look at it as just another way to try and dominate them. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/102 "2003-07-19T15:16:46Z")
> [@](#): > > I do think it is a dominance if it involves anal sex which is painfull to most straight people. Use more lube. > [@](#): > > The anus was not supposed to be a sex organ. The same argument can be made for the mouth–I take it you reject blow jobs as a violation of the body? > [@](#): > > Most people men and women find anal sex to be a painful violation of their body. This is a fact. Nonsense. A check of anal sex threrads finds many men and women who find it exquisitely pleasurable. > [@](#): > > Many men equate anal sex as being violent and see gay men the same as some bully going around wanting to “punch them out”. Yeah, that’s why there are so many fistfights in gay bars. The sad truth is that you are just cheating yourself out of pleasure. Having your woman digitally stimulate your prostate during sex can give you a mindblowing, full-body orgasm. All men, all men, can enjoy anal stimulation due to having a prostate. Consider it as one of the benefits of being born male, like being able to piss standing up. > [@](#): > > Most straight men look at it as just another way to try and dominate them Dude, if you see sex as merely one person dominating another, I pity any woman so unfortunate as to be your partner. Good sex, the ohmiGawd I’m CUMmming sort, is enhanced when each partner gives and receives pleasure as equals. You need to grow the hell up, ya loser. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/103 "2003-07-19T15:18:22Z")
In addition, I’ll bet some gentle rimming would help you loosen up (in every sense of the word). ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/104 "2003-07-19T15:32:49Z")
I have been to a doctor more than once for a physical. The anal exam made me feel bloated and made me feel like I needed to take a crap. And that was just two fingers any more than that im sure it would have been even more uncomfortable. It did not feel good in the least bit. Then he gave me two kleenix, just two. It took half a box to feel like a man again. ---
**Author:** ![Bren\_Cameron\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@Bren\_Cameron\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bren_Cameron_1)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/105 "2003-07-19T15:39:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BeatenMan \* > \*\*I do think it is a dominance if it involves anal sex which is painfull to most straight people. The anus was not supposed to be a sex organ. Most people men and women find anal sex to be a painful violation of their body. \*\* Have you tried it? Was it a painful violation? I tried it. It didn’t set off any fireworks for me, but it wasn’t painful, or a violation. And I’m straight. And as gobear said, many people, straight, gay, male, female, find it intensely pleasureable. It’s pretty clear you don’t know what you’re talking about here. As for the anus not being a sex organ–heck, anything on the human body is a sex organ. Breasts aren’t made for sex, they’re made for feeding babies. When you have sex, do you cover up your partner’s breasts? Your mouth, as gobear pointed out, isn’t a sex organ. So do you eschew kissing? I’m guessing you’re somewhat inexperienced, sexually, and have led something of a sheltered existence. Young, likely. Your feelings of discomfort are inarguable–you feel them, they’re there. But your rationalizations just expose your ignorance, instead of supporting your assertion that they’re right, or hardwired, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/106 "2003-07-19T15:54:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BeatenMan \* > \*\*I have been to a doctor more than once for a physical. The anal exam made me feel bloated and made me feel like I needed to take a crap. And that was just two fingers any more than that im sure it would have been even more uncomfortable. It did not feel good in the least bit. Then he gave me two kleenix, just two. It took half a box to feel like a man again. \*\* Dude, a physical exam is an impersonal probe to find disease–it’s not a sexual act, so basing your estimation of anal sex by a prostate examination is as silly as a woman comapring the sensations of sexual intercourse to having a Pap smear done. And “feeling like a man?” Sugar, one’s masculinity is based in the brain, not the ass. One can be a raging bottom and still be all man, for one’s self identification as a man is predicated on strength, self-confidence, and honor, not on whether one enjoys a hard cock inside himself. You have much to learn, young one. ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/107 "2003-07-19T16:02:54Z")
Ok you all win IM a Homophobe. Is there a twelve step program? I will work on not being one. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/108 "2003-07-19T16:19:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BeatenMan \* > \*\*Ok you all win IM a Homophobe. Is there a twelve step program? I will work on not being one. \*\* It’s good that you see that you have a problem. The most important thing I can tell you is learn to see people as individuals not as identical members of the genus Gay. ---
**Author:** ![pencilpusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d6d6ee/32.png) [@pencilpusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pencilpusher)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/109 "2003-07-19T17:24:00Z")
I spent the weekend with a LOT of GLBT persons last weekend as well as a few straight couples. We all had a blast because NOONE thought twice about being naked in front of a bunch of people. (and ftr there was a LOT of nudity there INCLUDING YOURS TRULY 😉 ) I’m so glad there wasn’t any open homophobia there. It would have ruined everything for everyone. That being said I think that guys ARE afraid of gays because they are more open with their TRUE sexuality than straight guys are. Most straight men I know are SERIOUSLY asexual or agressive sexually because they think thats what it takes to prove they “are a man” I think they are just little boys in mens bodies. Scared of their penises. As far as anal sex being painful… well I don’t know how YOUR doing it but I find it a LOT more enjoyable than vaginal sex!!! ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/110 "2003-07-19T18:14:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*And “feeling like a man?” Sugar, one’s masculinity is based in the brain, not the ass. One can be a raging bottom and still be all man, for one’s self identification as a man is predicated on strength, self-confidence, and honor, not on whether one enjoys a hard cock inside himself. You have much to learn, young one. \*\* Preach it, _ **sistah** _! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/111 "2003-07-19T18:18:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > > The same argument can be made for the mouth–I take it you reject blow jobs as a violation of the body? > \*\* Of course he does! After all, it’s **brutal** the way the head of the erect penis savages the uvula like it was a boxer beating on a speed bag. 😃 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/112 "2003-07-19T18:20:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BeatenMan \* > \*\*I do think it is a dominance if it involves anal sex which is painfull to most straight people. The anus was not supposed to be a sex organ. Most people men and women find anal sex to be a painful violation of their body. This is a fact. \*\* A fact. _Really_? Then I’d like to see some cites supporting your “theory”. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/113 "2003-07-19T18:22:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BeatenMan \* > \*\*Hey those two smiley faces are too close together. For god sake put some distance between them.::mad: :eek: \*\* They’re a lovely married gay couple from a forward thinking place called Canada where they have equal rights. :wally ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/114 "2003-07-20T15:26:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BeatenMan \* > \*\*I do think it is a dominance if it involves anal sex which is painfull to most straight people. The anus was not supposed to be a sex organ. Most people men and women find anal sex to be a painful violation of their body. This is a fact. Many men equate anal sex as being violent and see gay men the same as some bully going around wanting to “punch them out”. Most straight men look at it as just another way to try and dominate them. \*\* Interesting “facts” there, buttboy. I find it hard to believe that you don’t like anal sex, because you seem to be pulling so much stuff out of your ass in this thread that i figured you must like the sensation. While it is certainly true that some people find anal sex somewhat painful the first time they do it, it also seems to be the case that many people enjoy it. Many women also find vaginal intercourse painful the first time. While my evidence is largely anecdotal, it does come from a good source–Dopers themselves. There seems to be an anal sex poll every six months or so on these Boards, and while some women in these polls say that anal sex is painful or unpleasant, others claim to find it a lot of fun. And the number of men who have had anal sex with at least one woman suggests that it’s not particularly uncommon practice. [Exhibit A](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=17903) [Exhibit B](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=40384) [Exhibit C](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68974) [Exhibit D](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=117357) [Exhibit E](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=145912) [Exhibit F](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=169516) [Exhibit G](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=194089) And your assertion that straight men “see gay men the same as some bully going around wanting to ‘punch them out’” is the most ridiculous piece of shit i’ve ever heard. I certainly concede that there is probably a certain amount of fear of gay men among straight men–where else does all that hatred come from, except fear? Oh, i forgot, it also comes from ignorance, of which you’re providing a perfect example in this thread. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by BeatenMan_ > **It took half a box to feel like a man again.** Well, what would it take to make you act like one? A ninth grade education, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![king\_of\_spain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7cd45c/32.png) [@king\_of\_spain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_of_spain)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/115 "2003-07-20T16:17:53Z")
I’ve thought there was a lot to the theory in the OP, ever since I heard a guy say he was uncomfortable with homosexuality because the idea of performing oral sex on a man just seemed so _degrading_. And he said this as though he were completely oblivious to the implication of what he must think of any women who performed oral sex on him… > [@](#): > > For it to be true though, wouldn’t the homophobic man have to recognise that he treated women badly? You don’t have to recognize that you treat women badly in order to recognize that _you_ wouldn’t want to be treated the way you treat women. Think about it. Most people aren’t child abusers, right? Most people are very kind to children. But would you want to be treated the way most people treat children? No, because it would be degrading to treat an adult that way, right? The difference, of course, being that to an extent there are completely valid reasons for treating and viewing children in ways that would be degrading for an adult… ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/116 "2003-07-20T16:22:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by king of spain \* > **You don’t have to recognize that you treat women badly in order to recognize that _you_ wouldn’t want to be treated the way you treat women.** Why not? Surely the old injunction should apply: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” If you wouldn’t want to be treated the way you treat women, why treat them that way? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/117 "2003-07-20T16:27:26Z")
Because it makes life easier? If you treat women badly, you get them to do what you want, and you save all your energy for demanding your rights. You’d have to be a hypocrite, but keeping yourself unaware of what you’re doing is a defense against accusations. ---
**Author:** ![Bren\_Cameron\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@Bren\_Cameron\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bren_Cameron_1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/118 "2003-07-20T16:34:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > \*\*Why not? Surely the old injunction should apply: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” > > If you wouldn’t want to be treated the way you treat women, why treat them that way? \*\* Right, that’s the ideal. That’s the logical way to approach it. But it’s perfectly possible for people to be unaware that they aren’t actually treating other people well. A sort of blind spot, or cognitive dissonance, or whatever. Like **margin** says, it’s a defense against actually realizing what you’re doing, still thinking you’re a good guy and getting what you want. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/119 "2003-07-20T17:05:35Z")
It’s not that i don’t understand this, it’s just that i’m not willing to excuse it. Not that i’m saying that **you** are excusing it, but some people do use this sort of “blind spot or cognitive dissonance” argument as a defence, rather than an explanation. ---
**Author:** ![BeatenMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BeatenMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeatenMan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830/120 "2003-07-20T19:18:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mhendo \* > \*\*Interesting “facts” there, buttboy. I find it hard to believe that you don’t like anal sex, because you seem to be pulling so much stuff out of your ass in this thread that i figured you must like the sensation. > > While it is certainly true that some people find anal sex somewhat painful the first time they do it, it also seems to be the case that many people enjoy it. Many women also find vaginal intercourse painful the first time. > > While my evidence is largely anecdotal, it does come from a good source–Dopers themselves. There seems to be an anal sex poll every six months or so on these Boards, and while some women in these polls say that anal sex is painful or unpleasant, others claim to find it a lot of fun. And the number of men who have had anal sex with at least one woman suggests that it’s not particularly uncommon practice. > > [Exhibit A](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=17903) > [Exhibit B](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=40384) > [Exhibit C](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=68974) > [Exhibit D](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=117357) > [Exhibit E](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=145912) > [Exhibit F](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=169516) > [Exhibit G](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=194089) > > And your assertion that straight men “see gay men the same as some bully going around wanting to ‘punch them out’” is the most ridiculous piece of shit i’ve ever heard. > > I certainly concede that there is probably a certain amount of fear of gay men among straight men–where else does all that hatred come from, except fear? Oh, i forgot, it also comes from ignorance, of which you’re providing a perfect example in this thread.Well, what would it take to make you act like one? A ninth grade education, perhaps? \*\* Because I don’t like to take it up my ass I guess im biggoted and stupid. That is a great argument. This again is my reason and my hypothisis why there is a lot of homophobia among men. Chimpanzees live in a group there is a alpha male he is the only one that gets to mate with the females. This alpha male also pretends to have sex “fake mount” the other males in the group to show he is dominant and that he is the only one that can mate with the females. I feel homophobia is a left over trait from when males would challenge the alpha male. Today modern man sees the male homosexual as a male that would try to dominate with anal sex much as the chimp alpha male would. As a result the modern man feels resentment and anger. It is a primitive reaction. Just like personal space and highway driving. I feel men should be excused for their negitive feeling of male homosexuals because it is in part hardwired in our brains. Now when you mop the floor with me try not to pull the underwear up my crack. Please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-perspective-on-homophobia-for-me-anyway/188830.md?page=7)