# A new record! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804 "2017-10-02T13:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/241 "2017-10-03T00:23:38Z")
Y’know, the more alone America gets in relation to certain major issues, the more out of touch they seem, especially when no one ever seems to be able to explain why America is right and THE REST OF THE ENTIRE FIRST WORLD OF THE PLANET is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/242 "2017-10-03T00:39:43Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I understand that being from DC the thought of something going bang makes you wet yourself but in reality, there are 17 states that constitutionally allow subsistence hunting but none that recognize driving is required to live. I’m gonna stay out of this digression for the most part. But regardless of what’s constitutionally allowed or recognized, what do you think would happen to this country if: a) Every car and truck in the country disappeared tomorrow, or b) Subsistence hunting were somehow brought to an equally sudden and inexplicable end? My not so WAG is that reality \> state constitutions. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/243 "2017-10-03T00:40:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If every mass shooter had had full-auto capable weapons, they would have killed lots more people. If every mass stabber had had a semi-auto handgun, they probably would have killed lots more people. If every mass puncher had had a knife, they probably would have killed lots more people What about mass trebucheters? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/244 "2017-10-03T00:43:31Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I haven’t even budged the goal posts I just think you’re so blinded by your hatred of guns you can’t see them. How can you say those people on the freeway are choosing to drive because it gives them more satisfaction and enjoyment then riding the bus? If I gave you a choice, either I punch you in the arm or I punch you in the balls; I bet you would choose to be punched in the arm. And if I started punching you in the arm, would you say you are having fun because the arm punches give you comparatively more satisfaction than the nut punches? This is the level of silliness you have offered to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/245 "2017-10-03T00:50:17Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Given that the average large Vegas casino has clients who 1) are carrying, 2) are drunk and 3) are very upset about losing money at the tables, I’d be very surprised if there were not armed guards available. I doubt that the average advocate of more gun control opposes armed trained guards in places like this. I don’t. Just makes sense. IIRC, Vegas casinos do not allow guns. Or to be more technically accurate, there may be ‘no guns’ signs on the property that do not hold the weight of law, but the casino can still tell you to leave if they catch you packing, and you can be arrested for trespassing if you refuse. In other words - they can’t take your gun from you, but they can make you lave. Drunk gamblers and guns do not strike me as the best combination, so I have heard that casinos try to make sure nobody comes in carrying, but it’s still mostly sight-based security checks. Been years since I’ve been there, but I wouldn’t be surprised if security isn’t tighter nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/246 "2017-10-03T00:54:25Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Also, some of those things are…you know, regulated. I’m a US citizen, been living overseas for many years. I came back to the US for a few weeks. Renting a car was a serious PITA, but if I wanted to I could have purchased a gun at the local Rural King for less than my week-long car rental. Just how was renting a car a PITA? They ask for a driver’s license (duh) and a credit card. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/247 "2017-10-03T00:54:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Hmm, maybe they really are a “well-regulated militia”. Unlike the way you consider yourself to be. **ElvisL1ves** , you have utterly and completely forfeited any right to presume anything about what I think and feel. Shut your pie hole. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/248 "2017-10-03T01:16:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They don’t make gun possession a cult, and their media doesn’t push the use of guns as an answer to most problems. Why don’t you read [this to get the actual lowdown on gun laws there?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Switzerland) Yes, I’m aware that the Swiss despite being more pro-gun than most European countries have significantly more restrictions on guns than much of the United States. I was pointing out that actual physical access to rifles doesn’t seem to tempt most Swiss. If it’s the “gun culture” that irks you more than the guns themselves, then: [ol] [li]How is wanting to preserve concrete proof that the people are ultimately the masters, not the subjects, of government a “cult”, except maybe a cult of liberty?[/li][li]I’ve proposed restoring the old militia musters in a civil form of requiring mandatory training. I have no trouble with “well regulated” provided that it’s not weaseled into a gun ban.[/li][li]Indeed the media shouldn’t push the use of guns as an answer to most problems. We should ban the glorification of gun violence in movies, television and video games. Good luck amending the First Amendment in the face of Hollywood’s resistance.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/249 "2017-10-03T01:17:31Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Just how was renting a car a PITA? They ask for a driver’s license (duh) and a credit card. Based on the look on their faces when I showed my non-US driver’s license at the counter you would have thought I had showed them my Men In Black badge. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/250 "2017-10-03T01:21:14Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Y’know, the more alone America gets in relation to certain major issues, the more out of touch they seem, especially when no one ever seems to be able to explain why America is right and THE REST OF THE ENTIRE FIRST WORLD OF THE PLANET is wrong. Well, it all depends on how seriously you regard the downside of being dead. The number of gun-related deaths per year in America, in round numbers, is only slightly less than the number of deaths from lack of health care. There are good things and bad things about America, and among the worst of the bad things is that no one really has a basic right to health care, except as a discretionary purchasable commodity, like an iPhone, but by golly everyone has the sacred right to own a gun, and the right to be shot dead by a random maniac is protected with boundless zeal. And the reason that the right to be shot dead must be so thoroughly protected is frequently explained by right-wing lunatics. It’s because if any laws were passed to make this more difficult, then the redneck wishing to shoot beer cans off fence posts and the raving jealous husband wishing to put a bullet into the head of his wife’s lover would be inconvenienced, and might even have to fill out forms and stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/251 "2017-10-03T01:39:23Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I haven’t even budged the goal posts I just think you’re so blinded by your hatred of guns you can’t see them. How can you say those people on the freeway are choosing to drive because it gives them more satisfaction and enjoyment then riding the bus? There may be lots of folks that have a blind hatred of guns, but I suspect Ravenman isn’t one of them. Even if he is typically on the anti side, I’ve always found his posts to be quite reasonable and thought provoking. I know it’s the Pit, but there you go. Guns are not cars. That’s where the comparison should end. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/252 "2017-10-03T01:49:55Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Guns are not cars. That’s where the comparison should end. Well. I can agree with _that._ And watermelons are not fire hydrants! WHO’S WITH ME ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/253 "2017-10-03T01:57:48Z")
Speaking of cars: for many years I was bus-dependent and I can tell you that in the Minneapolis/Saint Paul metro area a journey that takes 25 minutes door-to-door by car can take 100 minutes by bus. Absolutely no comparison, private cars are wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/254 "2017-10-03T02:11:35Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You may also be pleased to know that the stock prices for gun manufacturers is up in pre-market trading. Ruger is up 4%, and Smith & Wesson up 5%. > > Investors clearly know who is really responsible for the tragedy, as MGM stocks are down about 5%. I like hotels that keep gunmen out. Sad! Well, to be fair, the Dow-Jones went way up today, and so did the Nasdaq, although not by as much, and the S&P was respectable. It might have been “A rising tide lifts all ships,” and has nothing to do with gun speculation. I have stock in a biotech company, Ford motors (inherited it; usually underperforms), a big box discount store, insurance provider, and a pharmaceutical company, and they all rose today. It’s rare that every single one rises. I have been lucky in that my overall portfolio keeps increasing, but it’s rare that every single stock increases in one day. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/255 "2017-10-03T02:16:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, look at this. The third dumbest poster on the Dope stops using the term “lame stream media” for one post, just to prostrate himself on the altar of firearms technology. Where’s Starving Artist on your list? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/256 "2017-10-03T02:40:49Z")
The gun-control folks, for some reason, from Sandy Hook to Orlando to Las Vegas, won’t or don’t have it in them to do the obvious: Try to repeal the 2nd Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/257 "2017-10-03T02:49:10Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The gun-control folks, for some reason, from Sandy Hook to Orlando to Las Vegas, won’t or don’t have it in them to do the obvious: Try to repeal the 2nd Amendment. With the present Parliament of Whores? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/258 "2017-10-03T02:49:34Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > How is wanting to preserve concrete proof that the people are ultimately the masters, not the subjects, of government a “cult”, except maybe a cult of liberty? This is sheer wishful thinking. What we have in modern American gun ownership is not “concrete proof” of that ideal: it’s merely an exercise in [LARPing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game) that ideal. **In a modern militarized nation-state, gun ownership does not make citizens “the masters, not the subjects, of government” in any realistically meaningful way.** It is too late to dream about citizen militias providing any kind of effective bulwark against government tyranny. That ship has sailed, that train has left the station: against modern military weaponry, that “bulwark” is a paper plate. Citizen gun-owners in 21st-century America are not defenders of liberty; they are at most cosplayers of liberty with some highly dangerous props. I personally don’t mind their continuing to own guns for their personal enjoyment if they want to (and are responsible, law-abiding and reasonably regulated). But we need to stop enabling their delusions of civic importance and the consequent fantasy-driven gun culture that is contributing to so many people getting killed. > [@Velocity](#): > > The gun-control folks, for some reason, from Sandy Hook to Orlando to Las Vegas, won’t or don’t have it in them to do the obvious: Try to repeal the 2nd Amendment. In fact, that is precisely what I’m suggesting and supporting. I know it won’t happen any time soon, but that doesn’t mean it’s not the right thing to work toward. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/259 "2017-10-03T03:19:15Z")
Don’t have to erase Scripture, simply interpret what has been misunderstood in a more positive perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/260 "2017-10-03T03:30:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The gun-control folks, for some reason, from Sandy Hook to Orlando to Las Vegas, won’t or don’t have it in them to do the obvious: Try to repeal the 2nd Amendment. I posted a poorly worded poll once that asked people if they would give up their guns if the 2nd Amendment were repealed. Most said no. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804.md?page=14)