# A new record! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804 "2017-10-02T13:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/261 "2017-10-03T03:41:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Don’t have to erase Scripture, simply interpret what has been misunderstood in a more positive perspective. Could have done the same with the Eighteenth Amendment, if desired; just go on modifying the interpretation of “intoxicating liquors” until it excluded not just low-alcohol or medicinal beverages but beer, wine, fortified wines, and so on throughout a “more positive perspective”. But it made more sense just to repeal the Eighteenth Amendment as unworkable and undesirable in the America of that day. And ultimately, it will make more sense to do the same with the Second. In the meantime, I don’t object to advocating interpretations of the Second Amendment that allow more rational and workable regulation of legal firearms. In the long run, though, as I said, the whole concept of private gun ownership **as a fundamental Constitutional right** no longer has any bearing on the civic purpose it was originally designed for, and serves no other useful civic purpose, so I vote we ditch it. Private gun ownership can continue to exist, as it does in many other developed countries, without demanding for it a unique and distorting constitutional-right status that we don’t award to ownership of cars or swimming pools or rocket launchers or any other specific type of material object. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/262 "2017-10-03T03:44:23Z")
Even if the Second Amendment were entirely nullified, rather that simply correcting a misunderstanding about the meaning of the word “militia”…there is no reason a sensible government would forbid hunting rifles to those who simply must go punch a hole in Bambi’s Mom. Simply to fulfill the darkest dreams of ballistophiles. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/263 "2017-10-03T03:47:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I posted a poorly worded poll once that asked people if they would give up their guns if the 2nd Amendment were repealed. Most said no. 😕 Did you specify in your poll that the hypothetical repeal would be accompanied by laws actually **banning** their guns? If not, I think a “no” response to that question is both law-abiding and reasonable. After all, repealing the Second Amendment _per se_ would not do jack-shit to delegitimize or criminalize gun ownership. It would simply remove the ownership of guns from its unfairly privileged position as a constitutional **right**. There are lots of things that you can legally own without having a constitutional right to own them. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/264 "2017-10-03T03:48:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Even if the Second Amendment were entirely nullified, rather that simply correcting a misunderstanding about the meaning of the word “militia”…there is no reason a sensible government would forbid hunting rifles to those who simply must go punch a hole in Bambi’s Mom. Simply to fulfill the darkest dreams of ballistophiles. Of course there isn’t, and I never said there was. See my above points about having no objections to responsible, law-abiding, regulated gun owners continuing to legally own guns even if there’s no longer a constitutional right to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/265 "2017-10-03T03:49:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 Did you specify in your poll that the hypothetical repeal would be accompanied by laws actually **banning** their guns? If not, I think a “no” response to that question is both law-abiding and reasonable. > > After all, repealing the Second Amendment _per se_ would not do jack-shit to delegitimize or criminalize gun ownership. It would simply remove the ownership of guns from its unfairly privileged position as a constitutional **right**. There are lots of things that you can legally own without having a constitutional right to own them. No I didn’t. That’s why it was poorly worded. I assumed that everyone would assume that, but it was a mistake on my part. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/266 "2017-10-03T04:26:45Z")
I’ve heard that legal semi-automatics can be easily converted to illegal automatics. Was this the sort of automatic rifles the guy used? If not, where did he get them? > [@XT](#): > > … we … we … we … Just because we as a society collectively assess the risk and decide we are good with them … You bandy the notion “we as a society” a lot, for “freedoms” _opposed by most Americans_ but supported by gun manufacturing corporations and the haters they’ve gulled. > [@Bricker](#): > > Another lie. This guy wasn’t walking a round with his illegal automatic, and there is no link between the open carry of lawful weapons and his obtaining an illegal weapon. So his were not converted semi-automatics? Cite? > [@ExTank](#): > > This thread, right here, is why 1/2 this country _ **hates** _ the other half. > > You fucking disgust me. Which half hates which half, again? Are you sure the hatred and disgust isn’t mutual? The thread’s stupidity prize goes to: > [@Bricker](#): > > I am willing to wait. But even in the event you are right, there is no questions that the use he put it to is not protected by the Second Amendment. Cite? How do we know he didn’t feel threatened? Or that as a good militia-man he didn’t think he was defending his country from socialists? But even though your “no questions” assertion is inescapably false, let’s stipulate it to expose the idiocy of your further “reasoning.” :– In your view I should be allowed to drink while driving — I might not be pursuing the illegal act of driving while intoxicated. And I assume you think the Second Commandment should be extended to automatic rifles, bazooka, etc. Aren’t these weapons harmless or even helpful when “put to use for purposes protected by the Second Commandment”? [sarcasm on] I’m glad **XT** pointed out what a tiny number _ **58 Dead** _ is. Our fine police officers kill at least that many thugs annually for driving while black or other crimes. And many of the 58 were Muslims or Jews or baby killers or Democrats, anyway — maybe we should wait to find out how many real people were killed. At least three Nazis had rocks thrown at them in a recent riot and _ **we patriots applauded when the Nazis drew knives and sent more than a dozen anti-Nazis to hospitals.** _ Maybe Stephen Paddock was performing a similar public service. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Well, it would be interesting to know how he managed to get “more than ten” rifles into his room without anyone noticing. At the very least, (and assuming he didn’t move them in just before the shooting) wouldn’t the housekeeping staff have noticed this arsenal laying about? 😕 Are you suggesting that the hotel maid should have reported a man exercising his rights under the Second Commandment? 😕 Go back to North Korea, you secular socialist! > [@The\_Plutonium\_Kid](#): > > Swift was actually trying to make a moral point. You’re just slinging shit. I agree. While human life may have some moral value, that value pales into insignificance besides the moral value of gun rights. ETA: I hope no confusion is caused by my promotion of the Second from Amendment to Commandment. This right precedes the endorsements by Jefferson, Madison et al. We’re repeatedly told by those who know best that guns are a universal right granted by Yahweh himself from atop Mount Sinai. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/267 "2017-10-03T04:49:58Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The gun-control folks, for some reason, from Sandy Hook to Orlando to Las Vegas, won’t or don’t have it in them to do the obvious: Try to repeal the 2nd Amendment. It wouldn’t ever happen. They know this. Even if they did, people will not give them up. Firearms are here to stay, trying to manage them and who gets them is a story that will never end, and nobody will be happy. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Max](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9de053/32.png) [@Blue\_Max](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Max)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/268 "2017-10-03T04:50:25Z")
Put simply, do we, as a country, want these sorts of mass shootings to happen? If the answer is no, what are we willing to change to make that a reality? If the answer is I don’t care, I get paid by Putin to shill on a website, or my investment with gun manufacturers mean I profit from gun violence, then take a good hard look at yourself. I’m not going to call you names or drop four letter words, because you have a far worse fate–you get to wake up and be that kind of person tomorrow. And maybe, just maybe, you may find that you want to change. Scores of people have died; hundreds injured. Are you really accepting this becoming normal? ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/269 "2017-10-03T05:01:14Z")
I’m a little twisted, here are my observations: 1. A machine gun can carry a bullet 1000 feet? Always saw it as a close range weapon. 2. NO ONE at Mandalay Bay, a Las Vegas casino with probably 10,000 security cameras, thought anything odd about the guy as he was sneaking 23 high damage assault weapons and bullets to his suite? 3. How is this going to affect high rise hotel security? Frankly you could pull the same thing off on Times Square. Does this mean metal detectors at some hotels as well as mandatory daily hotel room inspections? 4. 527 injuries to 59 deaths seem to be a high ratio; is it possible a lot of those injuries were from fleeing the bullets, and not the bullets? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/270 "2017-10-03T05:06:04Z")
> [@Blue\_Max](#): > > Put simply, do we, as a country, want these sorts of mass shootings to happen? > > If the answer is no, what are we willing to change to make that a reality? > > If the answer is I don’t care, I get paid by Putin to shill on a website, or my investment with gun manufacturers mean I profit from gun violence, then take a good hard look at yourself. I’m not going to call you names or drop four letter words, because you have a far worse fate–you get to wake up and be that kind of person tomorrow. > > And maybe, just maybe, you may find that you want to change. Scores of people have died; hundreds injured. Are you really accepting this becoming normal? When folks rush out to buy guns in the immediate aftermath of a terror attack like the one that happened yesterday, when the NRA and the government shush debate, claiming ‘this is not the time’ to talk about gun control, when the NRA provides huge funding to the government of the day, when people live in a state of abject fear, when any Joe or Josephine can walk into a shop and buy a gun without checks, when KIDS under 18 can buy guns in some states of the US…and you really ask if this is normal? Of course it’s fucken normal. When gun ownership is considered normal, people die in mass shootings. When gun ownership is constrained by regulations and laws and shit, less mass shootings occur. Meh, it’s another Tuesday, another pile of crap news coming out of the US. Be proud and stand up for your rights Americans!! So next Tuesday I can remember to turn off the news… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/271 "2017-10-03T05:06:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The gun-control folks […] won’t or don’t […] Try to repeal the 2nd Amendment. In fact, within the past couple years there have been a lot of articles and petitions advocating just this. Sure, it’s a minority viewpoint now, but all political reforms started out as minority viewpoints. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/272 "2017-10-03T05:14:33Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I guess the weekend tally of all the dead African-American gang-bangers in Chicago isn’t photogenic enough, or getting sufficient news coverage, to spark the level of outrage the OP is evincing. > > What’s disgusting is that we don’t even have any facts in yet on how this guy obtained a fully-automatic weapon, and yet OP and his choir are slinging bullshit about their political agenda, gleefully wallowing in the blood of people not even identified by their next of kin yet just to preposition themsleves for the “next big thing” on their legislative agenda. > > And then they bitch and moan and cry and wail about not understanding why Trump won an election. > > This thread, right here, is why 1/2 this country _ **hates** _ the other half. > > You fucking disgust me. And you disgust me, so I guess we’re even. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/273 "2017-10-03T05:16:20Z")
Why not try to repeal the 2nd Amendment? Because for too many people “The Right To Bear Arms” has gone from being a simplistic mantra to becoming a full-fledged religion complete with saints to worship and demonic forces to vanquish. They view those that question them as lying gun-grabbers and they would no more honor any decision to repeal the 2nd Amendment then they would accept fruit from a serpent. If you think I am exaggerating then [check out this thread /poll from just a couple years ago.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=777038) 72% said they would ignore any such repeal. To those that say “Well, why don’t you just repeal it if you don’t like it?” I have a question: If by chance the 2nd amendment WAS repealed, would you accept such a decision? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/274 "2017-10-03T05:17:05Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > 1. NO ONE at Mandalay Bay, a Las Vegas casino with probably 10,000 security cameras, thought anything odd about the guy as he was sneaking 23 high damage assault weapons and bullets to his suite? Why would anyone have seen them? AFAIK US hotels (unlike some I’ve been to in India) don’t run the guests’ luggage through metal detectors before admitting them. Also, he appears to have been a fairly high roller at the casino. Casino management usually don’t like to annoy that type of guest with nosy questions. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/275 "2017-10-03T05:17:12Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I’m a little twisted, here are my observations: > > 1. A machine gun can carry a bullet 1000 feet? Always saw it as a close range weapon. Preliminary reports are that at least two of the guns used were a .223 and a .306, I believe, which can fire rounds that will definitely travel with lethal force over 400 yards, the distance covered. > [@](#): > > 1. NO ONE at Mandalay Bay, a Las Vegas casino with probably 10,000 security cameras, thought anything odd about the guy as he was sneaking 23 high damage assault weapons and bullets to his suite? Long guns can be broken down into their constituent parts and packed into regular luggage, undetectable so long as the bags don’t go through a scanner or get opened in public. He was there for several days before the shooting, offering plenty of time to bring the armory in piecemeal. One TV commentator also pointed out that people come to Vegas with wares for gun shows, so seeing weapons wouldn’t necessarily be a red flag. > [@](#): > > 1. How is this going to affect high rise hotel security? Frankly you could pull the same thing off on Times Square. Does this mean metal detectors at some hotels as well as mandatory daily hotel room inspections? Time will tell. > [@](#): > > 1. 527 injuries to 59 deaths seem to be a high ratio; is it possible a lot of those injuries were from fleeing the bullets, and not the bullets? Yes, also shrapnel as well as the rounds themselves. ETA: Some of the people now in hospital will no doubt die. And being shot isn’t an automatic death sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/276 "2017-10-03T05:26:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why not try to repeal the 2nd Amendment? > Because for too many people “The Right To Bear Arms” has gone from being a simplistic mantra to becoming a full-fledged religion complete with saints to worship and demonic forces to vanquish. If that’s so, then I’d say that’s all the **more** reason to support repeal. If the enshrining of gun ownership as a fundamental constitutional right has indeed encouraged significant numbers of people to make an irrational fetish out of it, then the sooner we remove that perverse incentive and arrive at a saner view of constitutional rights and firearms ownership, the better for everybody. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you think I am exaggerating then [check out this thread /poll from just a couple years ago.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=777038) Ah, there’s that thread that **manson1972** was talking about. Yes, I can see that in that thread the issues of repealing the Second Amendment and actually outlawing all guns got well and truly tangled up together. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/277 "2017-10-03T05:45:52Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I think this crap is only going to end when some patriotic gun-loving American goes to an NRA board meeting and shoots down the entire board. Maybe then they’ll get it. The masses getting killed clearly has no impact. No, the worthless gun filth including the worthless gun filth on this Board will as usual put their sick, desperate spin on it. Then in a few weeks, the whole episode will blow over until the next time. Repeat ad nauseam. No doubt Traitor Trump is grateful to get people’s minds off Puerto Rico for a while. And the conspiracy theories are already starting. I listened to a guy today say no way Paddock could have shot all those people from that far away, so it must be a set-up. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/278 "2017-10-03T06:31:56Z")
As to how the weapons arrived without arousing suspicion…ran across a commentator on MSNBC …Raquel Meadow?..who had a theory. It appears to her that since Las Vegas is a major venue for gun shows, its not uncommon to see someone carrying a weapon to or from a show. There are many sellers, many buyers, and the requirements for documentation are more forgiving. If she’s right about that, then a man carrying one or two long packages…that might very well be firearms…would not arouse much notice. After all, he doesn’t need to bring them all at once. And I (tentatively) understand he was there for several days. Long story short, Vegas casinos do a lot of gun show business, so a man carrying one or more long guns is no biggie. Or wasn’t, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/279 "2017-10-03T07:02:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And not only that, he set a new record for deaths in a mass shooting. What a tough mark for the next guy to try to top, but I’m sure it’ll happen soon enough. Go U.S.A.! Nitpick: a new **American** record. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/280 "2017-10-03T07:49:51Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > 1. NO ONE at Mandalay Bay, a Las Vegas casino with probably 10,000 security cameras, thought anything odd about the guy as he was sneaking 23 high damage assault weapons and bullets to his suite? In many hotels I’ve stayed at, you can get to your room without going through the lobby. Never stayed in this one, so I don’t know. However he could easily have put them in other bags. These casinos are very crowded and no one is going to pay too much attention to an older white guy, who doesn’t fit your average description of a troublemaker. > [@](#): > > 1. How is this going to affect high rise hotel security? Frankly you could pull the same thing off on Times Square. Does this mean metal detectors at some hotels as well as mandatory daily hotel room inspections? Interesting question. Stronger glass? Alarmed glass? > [@](#): > > 1. 527 injuries to 59 deaths seem to be a high ratio; is it possible a lot of those injuries were from fleeing the bullets, and not the bullets? I understand that some of the injuries were from people trying to get out, especially since the exits were in the direction of the fire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804.md?page=15)