# A new record! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804 "2017-10-02T13:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/61 "2017-10-02T15:28:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Not even in the same ballpark. True wankeriffic is when you use a tragedy to make a political point and ignore the victims except to use them to keep score for new records and such. …unless, like **Bricker** and **Okrahoma** , they support your side of the argument. Then they’re just people making sensible points. > [@Okrahoma](#): > > Dancing on the graves, pure and simple. You know who’s dancing right now? These guys: > [@Ravenman](#): > > You may also be pleased to know that the stock prices for gun manufacturers is up in pre-market trading. Ruger is up 4%, and Smith & Wesson up 5%. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/62 "2017-10-02T15:29:06Z")
Boy, **Okrahoma** and **Bricker** , you’re quick to jump on the bandwagon of one media report being a lie. **Okrah** of course has the reputatioin of saying anything convenient to his political side, but **Bricker** if I recall generally has correctly applied the term “lies” to refer to statements that were fabricated with an intent to deceive. The quoted news report is in error, but the more likely cause is bad editing and fact-checking, and much less likely an attempt to deliberately misinform by conjuring nonsense into facts. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/63 "2017-10-02T15:31:46Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > What’s disgusting is that we don’t even have any facts in yet on how this guy obtained a fully-automatic weapon, and yet OP and his choir are slinging bullshit about their political agenda… I would like to point out that now is also not the right time to talk about hurricane relief efforts in Puerto Rico. Let’s let FEMA and the National Guard do its job, and then we can discuss whether the relief efforts were successful in another four or five years. People really shouldn’t be trying to politicize the issue by saying things like “we need to do more.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/64 "2017-10-02T15:31:49Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > So yes, fuck Newsweek for suggesting that reinstating the 94 AWB would have done anything to prevent this shooting, but isn’t their mistake being repeated by several posters in this thread as well? > > Do we know what kind of weapon it was? Do we know if it was fully automatic or a modified, say, bump-fired semi-automatic? If it was fully automatic, do we know if he had a license? > > “The weapon used is already illegal” seems like an unproven assertion at this point. I am willing to wait. But even in the event you are right, there is no questions that the use he put it to is not protected by the Second Amendment. I’d rather address the ignorance as it spews forth fresh. **RTFirefly** has no real interest in telling the truth, as his repeated posts demonstrate, but readers may be interested in facts as opposed to bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/65 "2017-10-02T15:34:28Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > …unless, like Bricker and Okrahoma, they support your side of the argument. Then they’re just people making sensible points. I seriously doubt either think I’m on their side. 😛 Most likely, I’m the only one in this thread on my side, as usual. > [@Folacin](#): > > I’m curious as to what restrictions you are in favor of? From what I can tell, any time any restriction is proposed the NRA and friends fire up the ‘slippery slope/gun-grabbers’ machine and shoot them down (hah!), including a rule that people with mental health issues shouldn’t be allowed to purchase weapons. > > I’m not saying you are part of the machine - but am interested in what additional restrictions you would be in favor of. Sure, why not? Hopefully it won’t be too much of a hijack of the outrage aspects of the thread. 😉 I’m good with universal background checks across the board, and certainly with heavy restrictions on people with known mental images being able to purchase or own a firearm (though how that would work out I’m not sure…devil is in the details). I’m also good with a more national registration system for guns owned, as long as it’s not part of a wider gun grab. I’d be good with a federal level license for carrying concealed with heavier restrictions and penalties. I’m not sure how much any of this will help, but I’m good with at least trying. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/66 "2017-10-02T15:34:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Absent laws allowing open carry (no permit, no nothing required for open carry in Nevada), the cops could be called by anyone who saw a guy walking around with a long gun, and almost surely would have been called well before he got into the hotel. Thought I’d write the OP as a 'if you can’t beat 'em, join ‘em’ post, and celebrate the success of our freedoms. But of course the guy wasn’t walking around with his rifle openly carried. So the abolition of such laws would have done no this to deter him, just like all the other gun grabbers’ strategies that disarm lawful intentioned citizens and leave criminals free to ply their criminal trade. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/67 "2017-10-02T15:35:18Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I guess the weekend tally of all the dead African-American gang-bangers in Chicago isn’t photogenic enough, or getting sufficient news coverage, to spark the level of outrage the OP is evincing. > > What’s disgusting is that we don’t even have any facts in yet on how this guy obtained a fully-automatic weapon, and yet OP and his choir are slinging bullshit about their political agenda, gleefully wallowing in the blood of people not even identified by their next of kin yet just to preposition themsleves for the “next big thing” on their legislative agenda. > > And then they bitch and moan and cry and wail about not understanding why Trump won an election. > > This thread, right here, is why 1/2 this country _ **hates** _ the other half. > > You fucking disgust me. Not as much as you disgust me. The only fuck you give about people killed in gang-related violence in Chicago is that you can use their deaths as an excuse not to be horrified enough at mass shootings to want to do anything about gun control. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/68 "2017-10-02T15:37:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Boy, **Okrahoma** and **Bricker** , you’re quick to jump on the bandwagon of one media report being a lie. **Okrah** of course has the reputatioin of saying anything convenient to his political side, but **Bricker** if I recall generally has correctly applied the term “lies” to refer to statements that were fabricated with an intent to deceive. The quoted news report is in error, but the more likely cause is bad editing and fact-checking, and much less likely an attempt to deliberately misinform by conjuring nonsense into facts. When I see even one bad editing, bad fact checking report from Newsweek that puts guns or gun rights in a mistakenly better light, I will be more inclined to accept that possibility. When each “mistake” helps the same agenda, the possibility of neutral, honest error becomes less credible. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/69 "2017-10-02T15:38:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Another lie. Oh really! Guess you didn’t read up in law school on what a lie is. > [@](#): > > This guy wasn’t walking a round with his illegal automatic If that’s the case, I apologize. That’s what I heard reported. > [@](#): > > and there is no link between the open carry of lawful weapons and his obtaining an illegal weapon. Well no, but so what? There are abundant ways to obtain illegal weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/70 "2017-10-02T15:45:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When I see even one bad editing, bad fact checking report from Newsweek that puts guns or gun rights in a mistakenly better light, I will be more inclined to accept that possibility. When each “mistake” helps the same agenda, the possibility of neutral, honest error becomes less credible. If you learned that the reporter who wrote the article was a London-based British journalist whose beat is actually Africa and the Middle East, would that lead you to suspect: 1. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about in terms of the 1994 AWB and his factual error slipped by the editors; or 2. He is engaged in a political conspiracy to spread propaganda through Newsweek’s dozens and dozens of daily readers, and concocted the beginning of this Russia-RT-like propaganda campaign within hours of the tragedy occurring? Oh, who am I kidding. The topic of guns is involved, so your feelings are more hurt than if the news story was talking about your dear mother. Of course you’re going to choose #2 until the last possible moment that you can. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/71 "2017-10-02T15:46:04Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I guess the weekend tally of all the dead African-American gang-bangers in Chicago isn’t photogenic enough, or getting sufficient news coverage, to spark the level of outrage the OP is evincing. I presume a society with limited access to firearms would have a lot fewer “dead African-American gang-bangers in Chicago” as well. Sorry if I failed to be pre-emptively outraged about everything you might have brought up. > [@](#): > > What’s disgusting is that we don’t even have any facts in yet on how this guy obtained a fully-automatic weapon Why is that important? I assume there are multiple ways he could have obtained a fully automatic weapon, and I’m not sure of the relevance of this guy’s particular means of doing so to this discussion, which is why I haven’t brought that up. > [@](#): > > , and yet OP and his choir are slinging bullshit about their political agenda, gleefully wallowing in the blood of people not even identified by their next of kin yet just to preposition themsleves for the “next big thing” on their legislative agenda. I’d damn sure like to have less blood to wallow in. That’s what I want. I’m goddamn pissed that there’s so much damn blood, but somehow it’s ‘gleefully wallowing’ to be upset about it in real time. Fuck that shit. When the others are done sticking their head in the pig, your turn is next. > [@](#): > > You fucking disgust me. I don’t mind that in the least. You seem to be fucking disgusted about all the wrong things. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/72 "2017-10-02T15:46:05Z")
What I don’t get is Jason Aldean using the hashtag #stopthehate . Wasn’t this one lone nutter and not part of some systemic “hate”?? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/73 "2017-10-02T15:50:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > When I see even one bad editing, bad fact checking report from Newsweek that puts guns or gun rights in a mistakenly better light, I will be more inclined to accept that possibility. When each “mistake” helps the same agenda, the possibility of neutral, honest error becomes less credible. When you take one mistake on my part, and turn it into repeated accusations of lying, the possibility that you were doing so by neutral, honest error becomes less credible. Your turn in the pig next. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/74 "2017-10-02T15:50:52Z")
I don’t own any guns, don’t really give a shit about guns. The people who worship the second amendment need to fix this shit. It’s your fucking problem. Clean up your own fucking mess. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/75 "2017-10-02T15:52:34Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I guess the weekend tally of all the dead African-American gang-bangers in Chicago isn’t photogenic enough, or getting sufficient news coverage, to spark the level of outrage the OP is evincing. > > What’s disgusting is that we don’t even have any facts in yet on how this guy obtained a fully-automatic weapon, and yet OP and his choir are slinging bullshit about their political agenda, gleefully wallowing in the blood of people not even identified by their next of kin yet just to preposition themsleves for the “next big thing” on their legislative agenda. > > And then they bitch and moan and cry and wail about not understanding why Trump won an election. > > This thread, right here, is why 1/2 this country _ **hates** _ the other half. > > You fucking disgust me. Maybe it’s just me, but I prefer to reserve a bit of disgust for some deranged mook mowing down a bunch of random people from a hotel window. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/76 "2017-10-02T15:56:15Z")
For what purpose would anyone need to own these types of weapons? Why are people allowed to own weapons with this type of firepower? What the fuck is wrong with this country? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/77 "2017-10-02T15:56:50Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If you learned that the reporter who wrote the article was a London-based British journalist whose beat is actually Africa and the Middle East, would that lead you to suspect: > > 1. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about in terms of the 1994 AWB and his factual error slipped by the editors; or > 2. He is engaged in a political conspiracy to spread propaganda through Newsweek’s dozens and dozens of daily readers, and concocted the beginning of this Russia-RT-like propaganda campaign within hours of the tragedy occurring? > > Oh, who am I kidding. The topic of guns is involved, so your feelings are more hurt than if the news story was talking about your dear mother. Of course you’re going to choose #2 until the last possible moment that you can. 1. The author is careless and/or ignorant. The editors are strongly anti-gun, which animates their fact-checking decisions. An statement that supports an anti-gun agenda is not fact-checked, because it doesn’t ring false. A statement that strengthens the gun rights argument is carefully fact-checked because the editors don’t want it to be true. This means that false statements that support gun restrictions easily make it to publications, and false statements that support gun rights are reliably detected and squelched. This endemic bias is fairly characterized as “lying,” because it arises from more than neutral, honest error. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/78 "2017-10-02T16:02:11Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > For what purpose would anyone need to own these types of weapons? > > Why are people allowed to own weapons with this type of firepower? > > What the fuck is wrong with this country? (1) “You deliberately stabbed this guy with your knife and he’s dead! What the fuck’s wrong with you?” (2) “You deliberately beat this guy with your baseball bat and he’s dead! What the fuck’s wrong with you?” (3) “You deliberately ran this guy over with your car and he’s dead! What the fuck’s wrong with you?” (4) “You deliberately shot this guy with your rifle and he’s dead! Why don’t we do something about guns? What the fuck’s wrong with this country?” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/79 "2017-10-02T16:04:31Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Because an individual decided to murder those 50+ people, and deserves to be slammed in every way possible. We know that by allowing citizens to use alcohol some non-zero number is going to drive and kill some non-zero number of other innocent drivers, but those doing the drinking and driving still deserve our ire when they do stupid shit like that. Sorry, but speaking as a statistician, fuck that shit. If you know that if you leave things unchanged, X number of people are going to do Y bad things, but you just don’t know which ones, then sure, each time there’s an individual responsible, but it’s the leaving things unchanged that leads to the sequence of individual actions. So a sane society will try to change those things in a way that makes X and Y smaller. If a small but determined subset of our society, call it Z, manages to keep that from happening, then yeah, I’m gonna be more upset about Z than about the individual X’s. Insights into yesterday’s X isn’t going to keep tomorrow’s X from shooting a bunch of people, so why the fuck should I care about him? If he were still alive, the criminal justice system would execute him or lock him up until he dies, and they wouldn’t need my rage to make that happen anyway. Tomorrow’s X will have an easier time getting his hands on higher-powered guns and kill a lot of Y’s thanks to Z. I don’t know who tomorrow’s X will be. But I know Z. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804/80 "2017-10-02T16:04:58Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but I prefer to reserve a bit of disgust for some deranged mook mowing down a bunch of random people from a hotel window. YMMV. Well, [here](http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-attack-stephen-paddock-trnd/index.html) is what’s knows about the deranged mook thus far: > [@](#): > > (CNN)Who was Stephen Paddock, the man police say killed more than 50 people on the Las Vegas Strip? > > Paddock, 64, was found dead in his room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino in Las Vegas when a police SWAT team broke down the door. Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said authorities believe Paddock killed himself. > > Officers found at least 10 rifles in the room. Police don’t think anybody else was involved in the shooting. > > Paddock had been at the hotel since Thursday, Lombardo said. Authorities said it appears he fired guns from his room into the crowd at the Route 91 Harvest music festival on Sunday night, killing more than 50 and wounding over 400. > [@](#): > > Paddock had been living in Mesquite, 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas. The town of 18,000 people is a retiree community with several casinos and golf courses. > Authorities searched his home Monday and found weapons and ammunition, but Mesquite police spokesman Quinn Averett did not give details. Averett didn’t know how long Paddock had lived in the area. > > “What’s unique for us is the gunman, the shooter, and the person with him, we in the Mesquite Police Department have not had any contact with these people in the past. We haven’t had any traffic stops, any law enforcement contact, no arrests or nothing,” Averett said. > > Law enforcement has no “derogatory information” about Paddock, besides the fact that he received a citation several years ago that was handled in the court system, Lombardo said. > [@](#): > > The brother said he knew Stephen Paddock had a couple of handguns and maybe one long rifle but did not know of any automatic weapons. Stephen Paddock did not have a machine gun when he moved him from Melbourne to Mesquite, Eric Paddock said. > > Marilou Danley was identified as Paddock’s companion or roommate, Lombardo said. She does not appear to have been involved in the shooting and was in the Philippines when the shooting took place, authorities said. Paddock had been using some of her identification, Lombardo said. > > Paddock had a private pilot’s license and the FAA is gathering his records, according to FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown. > > So far, authorities have found no military records for Stephen Paddock. So, we know fuck all about this crazy asshole so far. We don’t know what, if any motivation he had, where he obtained the majority of his weapons or really much of anything wrt solid information. Just that he was a fairly reclusive (seemingly) old white guy who had no contact with the police prior to this mess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-new-record-u-s-a-u-s-a-u-s-a/797804.md?page=5)