# A Nordics Seek Seat at G-20 Table **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629 "2011-08-05T19:43:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/1 "2011-08-05T19:43:45Z")
> [@](#): > > The Norwegian government is in talks with neighboring nations to form a strategic consensus about applying for a seat at the G-20 table. The quest for G-20 representation is based on growing security, political and economic interaction between the Nordic states. > > Norway plans to raise the issue with all Nordic governments through direct interstate contacts and future prime minister-level meetings of the Nordic Council, said Jonas Gahr Store, Norway’s foreign minister. Store said the G-20 needs to become more representative and would benefit from having more seats at the table. > > “In this context, we are proposing that the G-20 be expanded and that a Nordic-Baltic seat is established, and naturally in this expansion, additional seats for other countries and regions can be created,” Store said. “The proposal has met with strong support from other Nordic governments.” [http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=7298425&c=EUR&s=TOP](http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=7298425&c=EUR&s=TOP) - compared to population the Nordic countries are some of the world’s most productive and successful economies. And together the collective economy is about the size of that of India or Russia at the 10th largest economy. (From [Wikipedias IMF numbers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)): Nordic countries: 1,436,787 million US$ GDP; the Baltics: 78,339; together = 1,515,126) At the same time the economies are all very open and dependent on trade, so a representation would seem like an advantageous position. Both for the Nordic countries and for the world. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/2 "2011-08-05T21:47:33Z")
Just out of idle curiosity, exactly which Nordic states are involved? And, semi-related, is there any serious effort to get them all on the Euro or, if not, a more regional “Scandollar”? As for the specific topic at hand, it might be easier to just admit them as separate members and forestall the potential future conflict where, for example, Sweden wants something that Norway does not. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/3 "2011-08-05T22:40:13Z")
The EU already has its own seat, plus seats for four members individually. A Nordic/Baltic seat would put yet another level of “double membership” for European countries, which I suspect would make it seem to be a European dominated club to members from other countries, especially non-western ones. (plus, you’d either have to change the name and have to change all the stationary, or kick an existing member.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/4 "2011-08-06T01:34:54Z")
Let’s play GD Jeopardy!! _I’ll take Europe for 1,000 Alex._ The only Nordic country not in the EU. _What is Norway?_ Correct!!! Hey, Norway. Join the EU. That’s how you will get representation at the G20. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/5 "2011-08-06T03:14:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Let’s play GD Jeopardy!! > > _I’ll take Europe for 1,000 Alex._ > > The only Nordic country not in the EU. > > _What is Norway?_ > > Correct!!! > > Hey, Norway. Join the EU. That’s how you will get representation at the G20. Excepting Iceland. Further, Norway is already part of the EEA which goes the distance in term of homogenizing the internal EU market anyway. (Norway has only vetoed one piece of EU legislation. Ridiculously, we chose the postal reforms instead of the Data Directive, but there you are.) ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/6 "2011-08-06T03:22:11Z")
I am double-posting here, sorry about that. I don’t mean the above to in any way support Norway trying to ingratiate or bully itself into the G20. It’s been made plain before that we could and the lump we’d have to swallow would be EU membership with default conditions. Støre - who I otherwise admire - is merely trying to sidestep this. Yes, we are currently co-operating more closely with Denmark and Sweden than we ever have before and could form a bloc with appreciable if not globally significant impact. This does not entitle us to anything. More than anything, I perceive this as strategic positioning for future expansion considerations. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/7 "2011-08-06T03:25:21Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > And together the collective economy is about the size of that of India or Russia at the 10th largest economy. (From [Wikipedias IMF numbers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)): Nordic countries: 1,436,787 million US$ GDP; the Baltics: 78,339; together = 1,515,126) It looks to me like serious slight-of-hand to say that the Nordic countries together are the tenth largest economy, **if they’re compared to other nations singly**. If we’re grouping countries together 5 at a time, I’m guessing I could make a hundred or more such groups that have a collective economy greater than the collective economy of the Nordic countries. You’re comparing crates of apples to individual apples. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/8 "2011-08-06T03:57:41Z")
Looks like all of 'em put together can’t beat Canada. If they get a vote, I want _two_ votes. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/9 "2011-08-06T04:25:10Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > [http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=7298425&c=EUR&s=TOP](http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=7298425&c=EUR&s=TOP) > > - compared to population the Nordic countries are some of the world’s most productive and successful economies. And together the collective economy is about the size of that of India or Russia at the 10th largest economy. This is what you get when you bust up the Kalmar Union. Hey, if you guys want to form a single country no one is stopping you. Then we could stop pretending that Danish, Swedish, and Norwegian are separate languages. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/10 "2011-08-06T12:30:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Just out of idle curiosity, exactly which Nordic states are involved? And, semi-related, is there any serious effort to get them all on the Euro or, if not, a more regional “Scandollar”? I imagine the Nordic Council would be the administrative body. It consists of Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Iceland, Iceland (& Faroe Islands, Greenland, Ålandsøerne) The Baltics are Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia. The currency in use by all the nations except Finland is the kroner. So that would most naturally be the name a proposed common currency. I have heard nothing of that sort though. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > As for the specific topic at hand, it might be easier to just admit them as separate members and forestall the potential future conflict where, for example, Sweden wants something that Norway does not. Then it should be renamed G30 or something. Sweden is the largest economy, but only the 22nd largest in the world. > [@Gukumatz](#): > > Excepting Iceland. & The Faroe Islands, & Greenland (Greenland is the only ex-EU member) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/11 "2011-08-06T14:02:42Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The Faroe Islands, & Greenland (Greenland is the only ex-EU member) Greenland is a prime example of what happens when you’re soft on immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/12 "2011-08-06T14:52:46Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > The currency in use by all the nations except Finland is the kroner. So that would most naturally be the name a proposed common currency. I have heard nothing of that sort though. [trivia] As a matter of fact, it used to be a [common currency](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Monetary_Union), why do you think the currencies have the same name in the first place? 🙂 [/trivia] ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/13 "2011-08-06T15:47:58Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > Excepting Iceland. I knew someone would do that. 🙂 But let’s have a little perspective here. Iceland certainly is a country, but it has, what… 300,000 people? In the whole country. California alone has a dozen cities with that many people or more. As a state, we have more than 100x that much. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/14 "2011-08-06T17:09:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I knew someone would do that. 🙂 > > But let’s have a little perspective here. Iceland certainly is a country, but it has, what… 300,000 people? In the whole country. California alone has a dozen cities with that many people or more. As a state, we have more than 100x that much. They have a volcano, though, and they know how to use it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-nordics-seek-seat-at-g-20-table/591629/15 "2011-08-06T17:53:41Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > They have a volcano, though, and they know how to use it. Prevailing winds are east to west. It’s your problem!