# A note to men in the newspaper business: if your boss is the feminist Jill Abramson, you may be.. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 15, 2014, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511 "2014-05-15T07:02:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kstarnes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4da419/32.png) [@kstarnes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kstarnes)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/1 "2014-05-15T07:02:02Z")
passed over for a promotion in favor of a woman who may or may not be the better candidate. Links: Jill Abramson: [http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/05/15/business/TIMES2/TIMES2-superJumbo.jpg](http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/05/15/business/TIMES2/TIMES2-superJumbo.jpg) A tortoise: [![](http://thumbs.imagekind.com/2335832_650/funny-face-tortoise-turtle-closeup.jpg?v=1392197820) ](http://thumbs.imagekind.com/2335832_650/funny-face-tortoise-turtle-closeup.jpg?v=1392197820) The story: [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/business/media/jill-abramson-being-replaced-as-top-editor-at-times.html?hp](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/business/media/jill-abramson-being-replaced-as-top-editor-at-times.html?hp) The quote: > [@](#): > > “I got to work with the best journalists in the world doing so much stand-up journalism,” she added, noting her appointment of many senior female editors as one of her achievements." If you Affirmative-Actively look for women to promote, you are also overlooking the men who may be just as qualified or more so. > [@](#): > > “But as a leader of the newsroom, she was accused by some of divisiveness and criticized for several of her personnel choices, in particular the appointment of several major department heads who did not last long in their jobs.” Yes, it didn’t pan out I suspect because gender shouldn’t be a qualification. If you’re a man, you should be alarmed about feminist bullshit. They’re waging a war against you. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/2 "2014-05-15T07:09:22Z")
You criticize feminism as “affirmative action.” And yet, your diatribe starts not with criticism of the woman’s policies, not with background information that might be useful, not with any sort of reasoned argument, but with a jab implying she’s _ugly._ Because clearly, looks are what matters when a woman has power. Bullshit like that is a major reason feminists exist in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/3 "2014-05-15T08:12:47Z")
If women are under represented at the higher echelons then it stands to reason that women will be over represented by those in the lower echelons whose talent has been unrewarded. Statistically selecting a woman for promotion is the smart move. This is assuming women are not somehow naturally inferior and you wouldn’t be so dumb as to believe that would you. Oh wait - you’re the one who thinks comparing a woman’s looks to a tortoise is somehow a good idea… ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/4 "2014-05-15T08:25:31Z")
What **Reyemile** said. The more intellectual point your OP made is a point about which reasonable people could agree or disagree. But by gratuitously implying the protagonist in your OP looked like a tortoise, you blew it. Utterly. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/5 "2014-05-15T09:06:55Z")
Abramson said she hired the best journalists. It’s the OP who’s assuming the best journalists must be men. The only men who are threatened by feminism are those who needed preferential treatment to rise. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/6 "2014-05-15T09:21:00Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > What **Reyemile** said. The more intellectual point your OP made is a point about which reasonable people could agree or disagree. But by gratuitously implying the protagonist in your OP looked like a tortoise, you blew it. Utterly. That. And the multiple use of the word “feminist”, including in the thread title. Trying to use feminist as a derogative makes me think the OP is stupid. It’s too broad a term to be useful in this context – who are these feminists who have declared war on men? – and the feminist movement has been a huge benefit to society over the past century. Have women achieved power and equality to the extent that they no longer need special consideration in any circumstance? I don’t think so; hell, I think men need special consideration in some circumstances. But as to who needs special consideration in the situation described by the OP – uhh, the people subjected to his shoddy post about it? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/7 "2014-05-15T10:29:22Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > **A note to men in the newspaper business: if your boss is the feminist Jill Abramson, you may be…** > passed over for a promotion in favor of a woman who may or may not be the better candidate. > > . . . > > The story: [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/business/media/jill-abramson-being-replaced-as-top-editor-at-times.html?hp](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/business/media/jill-abramson-being-replaced-as-top-editor-at-times.html?hp) > > The quote: > > If you Affirmative-Actively look for women to promote, you are also overlooking the men who may be just as qualified or more so. > > Yes, it didn’t pan out I suspect because gender shouldn’t be a qualification. > > If you’re a man, you should be alarmed about feminist bullshit. They’re waging a war against you. Fail. The linked story notes the recruitment of one woman at a position equal to one of her subordinates. It separately notes that several of her personnel choices seem to have not worked out. If you have evidence that her personnel choices were all or mostly women, you should have linked to a story that demonstrates that point. Even with that unprovided evidence, you still need to demonstrate that their departures were based on performance problems rather than personnel conflicts. Ms. Abramson appears to have had personality conflicts within the culture of the NYT upper management culture. No evidence you have provided indicates that she was a “feminist” (although she may be) who promoted women over men, irrationally. (And an ellipsis takes three periods. Your pregnant title also fails.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/8 "2014-05-15T10:55:08Z")
Awww, someone misses the ol’ white boy network and its groundless promotions. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/9 "2014-05-15T11:11:17Z")
I’m sure it’s entirely coincidental to the creation of this thread that Abramson is the lead story on Drudge at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/10 "2014-05-15T11:30:46Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Awww, someone misses the ol’ white boy network and its groundless promotions. The OP’s history of [starting mysogynistic threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=10989811)and admitting to using stormfront for “research” is well-documented. So I suspect you are spot-on with your observation. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/11 "2014-05-15T11:37:27Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > The OP’s history of [starting mysogynistic threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=10989811)and admitting to using stormfront for “research” is well-documented. > So I suspect you are spot-on with your observation. Oh, that’s right- he’s the “I _like_ that’s Jews run NYC because they’re just so gosh darn smart” guy. Ignores thread now. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/12 "2014-05-15T11:43:28Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Oh, that’s right- he’s the “I _like_ that’s Jews run NYC because they’re just so gosh darn smart” guy. Ignores thread now. Yeah I should have said misogynistic\* AND racist. \*this time spelling it correctly. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/13 "2014-05-15T11:47:18Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Yeah I should have said misogynistic\* AND racist. > > \*this time spelling it correctly. Either one is enough! ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/14 "2014-05-15T12:42:15Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > … > If you’re a man, you should be alarmed about feminist bullshit. They’re waging a war against you. Dammit, they threw a war and I forgot to show up. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/15 "2014-05-15T14:57:05Z")
> [@kstarnes](#): > > passed over for a promotion in favor of a woman who may or may not be the better candidate. > > Links: > > Jill Abramson: [http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/05/15/business/TIMES2/TIMES2-superJumbo.jpg](http://static01.nyt.com/images/2014/05/15/business/TIMES2/TIMES2-superJumbo.jpg) > > A tortoise: > [http://thumbs.imagekind.com/2335832\_650/funny-face-tortoise-turtle-closeup.jpg?v=1392197820](http://thumbs.imagekind.com/2335832_650/funny-face-tortoise-turtle-closeup.jpg?v=1392197820) > > The story: [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/business/media/jill-abramson-being-replaced-as-top-editor-at-times.html?hp](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/15/business/media/jill-abramson-being-replaced-as-top-editor-at-times.html?hp) > > The quote: > > If you Affirmative-Actively look for women to promote, you are also overlooking the men who may be just as qualified or more so. > > Yes, it didn’t pan out I suspect because gender shouldn’t be a qualification. > > If you’re a man, you should be alarmed about feminist bullshit. They’re waging a war against you. No, they’re not waging a war against men, just men like you. ---
**Author:** ![JuliaSqueezer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/82dd89/32.png) [@JuliaSqueezer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JuliaSqueezer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/16 "2014-05-15T15:00:13Z")
Totally surprised the OP didn’t use the term “feminazi.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/17 "2014-05-15T15:05:11Z")
Since when was journalism a meritocracy? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/18 "2014-05-15T15:23:06Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > The OP’s history of [starting mysogynistic threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=10989811)and admitting to using stormfront for _ **“research”** _ is well-documented. Oh, is that what they’re calling it now? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/19 "2014-05-15T16:20:08Z")
Irony kerplode: it’s being reported that one source of friction between Abramson and her bosses is the fact that she discovered she was being paid less than the male executive editor who preceded her. She got a raise and the disparity was partly related to seniority, and nobody thinks that’s the only reason she was dismissed. But still- think about that and then read the OP’s dribbling again. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511/20 "2014-05-16T01:36:33Z")
Also, there are reports that upper management considered her “pushy.” Not sure if it’s direct quote, but it’ s funny :rolleyes: that one so rarely hears that when discussing a male… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-men-in-the-newspaper-business-if-your-boss-is-the-feminist-jill-abramson-you-may-be/688511.md?page=2)