# A note to the straight supremacists and those verbally beating the tar out of them **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604 "2002-09-09T02:56:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/21 "2002-09-09T12:11:52Z")
“Well, god, mom, I don’t know if he’s THE gay… That’s a lot of pressure to be THE gay, all that on just one guy… he has to do the parade ALL BY HIMSELF… ‘I’m here! I’m queer!.. I guess I’m the only one!’” - Margaret Cho ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/22 "2002-09-09T12:15:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by awd\_dsm \* > First i’m not gay… I’m glad i’m not gay. I’m bisexual and very happily so. And if you doubt that, I even have a few people on this here board who can vouch for that:) > [@](#): > > to me > Homosexuality=wrong My dear boy, I do believe you may have a fact and an opinion mixed up. Orange is a color. That is a fact. Homosexuality being right or wrong is merely an opinion. The only help you have in your statement is “to me”, which fortunately acknowledges (I think/hope) that you concede you may be incorrect. The other option is that you’re saying “this is what I believe in my heart” > [@](#): > > I don’t hate anyone for what they are. > I however hate the choice that you made to become a homosexual. Well, if I made the choice to become bisexual, then it is part of me, and thus what I am. So you either hate what I am, or you don’t… Logical fallacies are a **bitch** , aren’t they? > [@](#): > > You go ahead and live your life as a gay. As long as you don’t effect me you’ll be ok. Try this one on for size: you go on living your life as a heterosexual (dear God I hope so … last thing we need anywhere is a self-loathing non-het. Things are hard enough as it is) and as long as you don’t **a** ffect me (spelling is very sexy, don’t you think?), you’ll be okay. By the by, what in the world do you mean by “you’ll be ok”? > [@](#): > > The day a guy puts the moves on me is the day he gets his ass kicked. Why do I think you’d say something different if it were a girl? > [@](#): > > However I will not stand for anyone to rub thier homosexuality in my face. First, how would they do that? Second, what would your reaction be (and be honest … this is for posterity) if I said to you “However, I will not stand for anyone to rub their heterosexuality in my face”? Bit different from that perspective? > [@](#): > > I believe because of the choice you made to be gay (for those that are gay) that you will burn in hell. What does God (assuming, based on this “burn in hell” bit, that you’re a Christian) say about those who condemn others to … anything? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Run along, little child. Your arguments, as with your venom, are stale. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/23 "2002-09-09T12:24:11Z")
I love me some punha. (and some Potter, too, but for a different reason.) ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/24 "2002-09-09T12:26:36Z")
Sorry, **Robert** , I tried, but I couldn’t stay out of it. After all, it’s my religion they’re damaging. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/25 "2002-09-09T12:41:15Z")
File under ‘irony’ - > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **robertliquori** _ > To the straight supremacists: Take a break, please. You are producing a flow of vitrol unmatched by anything I’ve seen in my admittedly short tenure as a Doper. And then immediately followed by posts from a gay poster banned for the intemperance of his language. Who is producing the vitriol here? If being disagreed with makes people so crazy that they can’t behave like adults, how is that someone else’s problem? If I have a hissy fit, whose responsibility is that? Are you people such hothouse flowers that strangers on the Internet disagreeing with you causes you to lose all control of yourself? If so, I hardly think it is the other side who needs to take a break. For heaven’s sake, we can disagree on politics, religion, morality, and every other topic under the sun, and maintain a certain decorum. But let someone come on the board and say “I don’t think God wants you to diddle your boyfriend” and WWIII breaks out. If people are getting foam on their monitors, they can back off from posting for a while, or find another thread. I am trying to avoid use of the term “hysterical histrionic”, but nobody is making it any easier. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/26 "2002-09-09T12:42:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > I love me some punha. **matt** , is that your homosexuality rubbing itself in my face, or are you just happy to see me? [sub]Is there really a difference?;)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/27 "2002-09-09T12:46:26Z")
Firstly, regarding the banning of **Kirkland** … you perhaps didn’t see various of us (myself included) tell him to cool things down some even though this was the Pit? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > For heaven’s sake, we can disagree on politics, religion, morality, and every other topic under the sun, and maintain a certain decorum. But let someone come on the board and say “I don’t think God wants you to diddle your boyfriend” and WWIII breaks out. What, have you been sitting in a cave with your hands covering your eyes?🙂 I can remember _bitter_ disagreement that has led to flaming and hurt feelings from each of those topics. Hell, just go back to the GD and Pit threads from the last election for politics that got WAY heated. Religion comes along whenever sexuality does, or nearly every time, and that gets hacked to death. Morality pretty much goes along with that, too. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/28 "2002-09-09T12:57:47Z")
> [@](#): > > oops somehow i posted that in the wrong thread… > don’t i look stupid Yes. But not for that reason. Anyone can make a mistake. Here’s why you look stupid: > [@](#): > > I however hate the choice that you made to become a homosexual. I challenge you to put your belief where your mouth is. Describe how you would choose to get an involuntary erection when you’re with an attractive man. Explain how you would fall helplessly in love with your best buddy and desire that he love you in return. Tell us what would make you, an intelligent person, decide to be mocked, despised, targeted, ridiculed, and suspected of making the dumbest decision possible. You seem to think that sexual orientation is a voluntary muscle reflex. You seem to think that a gay man reaches out for another man in the same way that he reaches out for a Pepsi instead of a Coke. I want you to tell us how you would choose to like what you despise. I want to know how you make yourself get it up when you think of something that makes you sick. I want you to give us the specific method you would use to become attracted to men and find them irresistably sexy. Otherwise, I want you to be an honorable man, and admit that you haven’t completely thought this through. Homebrew, Andygirl, and the other wonderful gay people here have not chosen to be gay, but you’ve certainly chosen to be stupid. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/29 "2002-09-09T13:06:09Z")
I remember when I chose to be het. I was in the shower after gym class, 7th grade, and thought “You know, if I choose to be gay, I’m gonna have to, like, make out with these guys, and I dont even like looking at them naked” Plus, I’d most likely never get my hands on Lori Lynn Hoffmeyer’s enormous…tracts of land. Going to Hell never entered into it. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/30 "2002-09-09T13:15:36Z")
> [@](#): > > _Shodan_ > > For heaven’s sake, we can disagree on politics, religion, morality, and every other topic under the sun, and maintain a certain decorum. But let someone come on the board and say “I don’t think God wants you to diddle your boyfriend” and WWIII breaks out. I see what you are going at Shodan, and you’d have point if you would have been able to add ‘race’ and ‘ethnicity’ to that list, but you can’t. Disagree with me on who the best leader of the EU or US is, what morality is as regards the death penalty, on Israel/Palestine, tell me that my religion/lack-of is a flawed belief even, but for heaven’s sake do not attack me or anyone else for what we inherently are as individuals; our skin color and other phenotype characteristics, our ancestral origin, our gender and our sexual orientation are thus off limits to debate from a wrong or right perspective. Hence when somebody crosses the boundary and says; “all Arabs this or that”, or “all Gays thus and so” it is bound to go pear-shaped as the Brits say. And seriously, I think Kirkland went way out of bounds in many ways, but in the context of things I have to understand him a little. I don’t see how hate speech and racism can be forbidden and yet so many offensive and oppressive gay slurs are let through the tiller… Some of the stuff that a few people have said about homo/bi-sexuality in these threads makes my hair stand on end. Had they said similar things about black Americans they would have been out of here by now. Then again I think that even if it’s only one germ of understanding that one straight supremacist gets into that little noodle it’s important enough an achievement for one to bear it. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![Mort\_Furd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mort\_Furd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mort_Furd)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/31 "2002-09-09T13:27:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\* > Otherwise, I want you to be an honorable man, and admit that you haven’t completely thought this through. Homebrew, Andygirl, and the other wonderful gay people here have not chosen to be gay, but you’ve certainly chosen to be stupid. \*\* Hey, hey. Hold on just one moment. Why would anyone choose to be mocked, despised, targeted, ridiculed. Stupidity isn’t a choice or a life style. Nobody chooses to be stupid. Read the above as sarcasm. I think I would rephrase that as “you have chosen to blindly spout drivel.” I agree with the sentiment behind the condemnation of awd\_dsm, just not the wording. A straight guy who could give a damn and care less what two people of any sex choose to do together - and who has been known to politely turn down homosexual advances. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/32 "2002-09-09T13:39:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by awd\_dsm \* > **First i’m not gay… I’m glad i’m not gay.** Speaking as a representitive of the straight community, can we get you to reconsider? We don’t want you on our side. > [@](#): > > \*\* > To me > Homosexuality=wrong\*\* To me, verminous little toads=you! \*\* > [@](#): > > I don’t hate anyone for what they are. > I however hate the choice that you made to become a homosexual. Why are you Writing in free verse? Is your idiotic gibberish a ploy to gain attention for your avante-garde drivel? Or are You just a moron who likes To hit the ENTER Key? \*\* > [@](#): > > I expect that because as everyone knows this is the forum to be bashing.\*\* No, you silly. This is the forum to be _smashing_. As in Faaaaa-bulous. However, me, **Matt** and **'puNHa** have already filled the quota. \*\* > [@](#): > > You go ahead and live your life as a gay. As long as you don’t effect me you’ll be ok. \*\* Effect you?? We’ve made you go into full force or operation? (“That A-wad guy sure went into effect today!”) \*\* > [@](#): > > The day a guy puts the moves on me is the day he gets his ass kicked. \*\* Snicker. I’d like to see you try with, say… **Gobear** , or a weightlifter buddy of mine. Or is this a desperate, repressed, closet-case plea for S&M? \*\* > [@](#): > > I will not persicute someone for believing what they believe. \*\* Commendible, but unfortunately, he thinks “persicute” has to do with pretty handbags. \*\* > [@](#): > > However I will not stand for anyone to rub thier homosexuality in my face.\*\* On this point, we agree. **Hastur** , **Esprix** , **Gobear** , your homosexuality needs to be on a leash. We have LAWS in this country and I don’t want your homosexuality jumping up on the furniture, shedding on the carpet and humping my leg. Proper training is the key to a well-behaved homosexuality. \*\* > [@](#): > > I believe because of the choice you made to be gay (for those that are gay) that you will burn in hell.\*\* And I believe that because of the below-room temperature IQ you’ve chosen to have that one day someone will ask you to screw in a lightbulb and you’ll respond that you’ll try, but you’re not sure the two’ll fit inside. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/33 "2002-09-09T13:51:15Z")
Fenris: (addressing whatsisname) > [@](#): > > Speaking as a representitive of the straight community, can we get you to reconsider? We don’t want you on our side. Speak for yourself. I for one value his presence. Good cannon fodder is **always** at a premium. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/34 "2002-09-09T13:53:22Z")
Drastic: yes, the SDMB _does_ dispel ignorance. I’m glad i found it. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/35 "2002-09-09T14:06:15Z")
Just for the record, **Kirkland** was banned for making personal insults in Great Debates, not for his vitriol in the Pit. He was given fair warning from the mods and calm advice from several posters. Unfortunately, he choose to ignore us. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/36 "2002-09-09T14:08:59Z")
Y’know, it seems to me that hate is a variant form of vampirism in that it turns its victims into copies of itself, as we can see in **Kirkland** ’s unfortunate example. Responding to hate-filled people like **H4E, Jersey Diamond, Brutus** , and now **awd\_dsm** with equal amounts of vitriol may feel good in the short term, giving one a rush of inflicting on one’s enemies some morally justified retribution, but, bit by bit, it corrodes the soul (yes, I know I’m a materialist and an atheist, but bear with me.) Every resentment one harbors, every grudge, is a slow poison, turning one into a vicious copy of the exact qualities one hates. I’ve benn doing some serious thinking, in the light of the 9/11 anniversary, about how I react to people who hate me. I maintain that it is one’s duty to resist evil, but I don’t want to let hate into my heart. I’m going to respond the the gay-haters here with logic and unrelenting argument, but I won’t hate them or use abusive language to them. I have no expectation that any amount of logic will get through to **Jersey Diamond** , but if I read the Gospels and cultivate a knowledge of Jesus’s message in my heart, perhaps I can offer tolerance in the face of hate, bless those that curse me, and shame those who insult me. I’ve been listening to Faith Hill’s “There Will Come A Day,” from the 9/11 telethon DVD, and the words have made me cry and reflect on a great many things in my life: > [@](#): > > It’s not easy > Trying to understand > How the world can be so cold > Stealing the souls of man > Cloudy skies rain down > On all your dreams > You wrestle with the fear and doubt > Sometimes it’s hard, but you gotta believe > > There’s a better place > Where our Father waits > And every tear > He’ll wipe away > The darkness will be gone > The weak shall be strong > Hold on to your faith > There will come a day > There will come a day (It’s only a verse and a chorus, so I hope it complies with the SDMB fair use policies.) Have a good day. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/37 "2002-09-09T14:15:08Z")
> [@](#): > > I think I would rephrase that as “you have chosen to blindly spout drivel.” Fair enough. Consider it rephrased. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/38 "2002-09-09T14:18:11Z")
> [@](#): > > The day a guy puts the moves on me is the day he gets his ass kicked. I see. Gay people are going to hell, but violence is OK. Exactly what religion do you belong to again?? I myself prefer to do what the Bible tells me to do. Henceforth, I shall turn the other cheek. What? ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/39 "2002-09-09T14:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I just want to clarify that I still believe the bible to be the word of God. I just can’t find it in my heart or in the bible where it says it’s my job to be condemning and judging people. And so, you’re no longer a literalist. When it comes to a contest between the Word–the living experience–and the words–abominations, stonings, smitings, swords, Amelekites–a person has to choose. That choice–not matter what collection of words they most see the Word within, be it Talmud, Bible, Upanishads, the Zohar or on and on–tells far more about a person than their choice of words ever does. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604/40 "2002-09-09T14:44:28Z")
First i’m not christian… I’m glad i’m not christian. to me Christianity=wrong I don’t hate anyone for what they are. I however hate the choice that you made to become a Christian. Come back and bash me for what i believe. I expect that because as everyone knows this is the forum to be bashing. You go ahead and live your life as a Christian. As long as you don’t effect me you’ll be ok. The day a Christian witnesses me is the day he gets his ass kicked. I will not persicute someone for believing what they believe. However I will not stand for anyone to rub thier Christianity in my face. I believe because of the choice you made to be Christian (for those that are Christian) that you will burn in hell. Of course, If I was to mean the above, I would be called evil and ignorant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-note-to-the-straight-supremacists-and-those-verbally-beating-the-tar-out-of-them/127604.md?page=3)