# A or E for Effort? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 23, 1999, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425 "1999-09-23T18:34:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/1 "1999-09-23T18:34:00Z")
Just a minor debate between me and my wife. I know the saying goes “A for effort.” She thinks it is “E for Effort,” mainly because effort starts with an e and makes so much more sense. Please tell me one of you linguistically trained people can answer this one. * * * It’s not bragging if you can do it - Satchel Paige ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/2 "1999-09-23T18:56:00Z")
I argue both could be valid, depending on the grading system where you grew up. Example: My grade school you could receive: E=Excellent G=Good F=Fair N=Needs Improvement U=Unsatisfacory My Middle school: A=90-100 B-80%-90 C=75%-80% D=65%-74% F=below 65% The Phrase “\_for effort” is usually used in the context “well, you suck but you tried really hard” As you can see A or E (both highest grades) can be awarded for effort. That’s my WAG and I’m proud of it * * * This space intentionally left blank ---
**Author:** ![Glitch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/0ea827/32.png) [@Glitch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glitch)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/3 "1999-09-23T18:57:00Z")
I have heard both. A for Effort refers to a grade. I.e. A in Math. E for Effort seems to refer to something like a cheerleading. You know give me an E. Give me an F. etc. Anyway, personally it seems to me that the full phrase is “I would give him an A for Effort”, which makes sense since you are giving a “grade”. Giving an E for Effort doesn’t make much sense in that context. So, my vote “A for Effort”. * * * What more could you expect from somebody who lets people kick him to the head? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/4 "1999-09-23T18:59:00Z")
Depends where you’re coming from. Elementary school would generally say “A for effort” as **A** is the highest grade. The Navy used to award an “E for effort” (allowed to fly the **E** pennant from the mast?) that I have seen noted in my uncle’s old newsletters published during WWII. (Monty can set this one straight, I’m sure.) * * * Tom~ ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/5 "1999-09-23T19:04:00Z")
I say you’re right, M-man. Besides reading, math, science, etc., kids used to be graded on things like effort, citizenship, attitude, etc. Being given an “A” in effort and a lower grade in the actualy subject meant you tried your best even though you got a lower grade. So giving someone “An ‘A’ for effort” tells them, “nice try, but you’re wrong.” Besides, our US grading system of A, B, C, D, F has no E. (My WAG: because ‘fail’ began with ‘F’, they skipped ‘E’.) This reminds me: in [“The Scarlett Letter”](http://us.imdb.com/Title=Scarlet+Letter,+The+(1995)), the townspeople gave Hester Prynne (Demi Moore) an A. I would’ve given her an A+. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Keeves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f05b48/32.png) [@Keeves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeves)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/6 "1999-09-23T19:28:00Z")
I say they both mean the same thing. One means: In the main thing itself, you fail; but I’d like to invent a new category for effort, and for that I’d give you an A, because you really tried hard. The other: You failed, but you really tried hard and I don’t want to give you and F, so I’ll make up a new grade called an E (for effort) and give it to you. ---
**Author:** ![Inky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d78d45/32.png) [@Inky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inky)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/7 "1999-09-23T19:34:00Z")
Was I the only one who got a sticky gold star stuck to their forehead for a good job? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/8 "1999-09-23T19:47:00Z")
Well, yes, Inky. Actually you were. No one else in the world ever had a star stuck to their forehead. You’re the only one. -andros- * * * There’s always a bigger fish. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/9 "1999-09-23T19:48:00Z")
Sorry. Someone accidently turned on my SmartAss ™ overprocessor. ---
**Author:** ![StrTrkr777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@StrTrkr777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StrTrkr777)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/10 "1999-09-23T19:53:00Z")
I have never heard E for Effort. I have to go with A for effort as the others have said and for the same reasons. I always interpreted it as they were being graded for their effort. Jeffery ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/11 "1999-09-23T21:11:00Z")
I have gotten an E for effort, in middle school band where the E(xcellent) was the best grade you could get. I have also gotten an A for effort, in tennis. What it means depends on the grading system. (And maybe how charitable teacher is) ---
**Author:** ![Nickrz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@Nickrz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nickrz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/12 "1999-09-23T21:34:00Z")
I always thought “you get an E for effort” was meant sarcastically, as in “nice try, but you don’t get an A.” ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 1999, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/13 "1999-09-23T21:39:00Z")
I’m with Nick, that “E for Effort” meant “Nice try, no cigar.” For a book that is absolutely a laugh riot, may I suggest Donald Westlake’s DANCING AZTECS – the story begins with confusion about A and E (since E in Spanish is pronounced ay, or perhaps the other way around.) Anyway, a book that’s practically guaranteed to get you to wet your pants from laughter. ---
**Author:** ![Visual\_Purple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5daacb/32.png) [@Visual\_Purple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Visual_Purple)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 1999, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/14 "1999-09-24T00:13:00Z")
I’m fairly certain that at University of Michigan, where I was an undergraduate, the grading scale was A, B, C, D, E. I believe that this is the case at other universities as well. Thus to get “an ‘E’ for effort” was to be utterly hopeless at a subject. I had the impression that the phrase was an ironic variant of “to get an A for effort,” the implication being “this isn’t grade school anymore, you’re marked on results, not how hard you try.” ---
**Author:** ![Holly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/48db29/32.png) [@Holly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Holly)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 1999, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/15 "1999-09-24T01:09:00Z")
Hey, in my grade school in Illinois (K through 8th grade, actually) there was no “F”. “E” was the lowest grade you could get. At my husband’s grade school (in Texas) “E” stood for “excellent”. I don’t think he ever got one of those. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 1999, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/16 "1999-09-24T02:23:00Z")
I have to agree with the “e for effort” as sarcasm crowd. My interpretation was something like “you not only failed, your effort was less than impressive, too.” My dad used to tell the story of his days at the Univ of Wisconsin, taking a surveying class. The final exam was to survey the campus. My father and three buddies in the class decided to divide the campus into 4 parts and they’d each survey one quarter and share the results. The instructor called them in to receive their grades. “Boys,” he said, “this is very good work and I’m grading it 100%. That’s 25 for you, 25 for you, 25 for…” Maybe it’s an old joke, but it always made me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 1999, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/17 "1999-09-24T03:00:00Z")
Our family always said “You get an A for effort.” As in the grade, not E as in the word effort. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 1999, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/18 "1999-09-24T05:25:00Z")
While the following does not in any way affect the outcome of the OP’s discussion, it, at least, does show that there was a pennant associated with excellence and the letter E during WWII, however garbled I got it. (It’s nice to know that I don’t imagine _everything_ that I think I remember.) From [http://www.labconco.com/company/e\_award.html](http://www.labconco.com/company/e_award.html) > [@](#): > > Labconco Corporation, Kansas City, Missouri received The President’s “E” Award for excellence in export business on December 9, 1996. > > This award is one of the most prestigious export achievement honors conferred on US. companies. Created in 1961 by executive order of President John F. Kennedy, it was designed to give special recognition to those few outstanding companies and individuals who excelled in their effort to increase United States exports. The “E” Award, which stands for Excellence, Expansion, Effort and Exports, has, over the past three decades, come to symbolize the finest in American commerce and stands as a reminder of the ever increasing importance and value of participation in the global marketplace. It was modeled after a World War II method of recognizing production plants for patriotism called “E Pennants.” * * * Tom~ ---
**Author:** ![curwin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@curwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curwin)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2001, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/19 "2001-07-12T10:19:01Z")
When I was in middle school, there were two seperate grading scales – one for achievement, and one for effort. If I remember correctly, both had grades from A to F. Obviously, the best you could get were A’s in both. But I had a cousin who wisely pointed out that the best should really be an A for achievement and an F for effort, meaning you acheived all that without even trying. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2001, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-or-e-for-effort/3425/20 "2001-07-13T16:07:50Z")
Completely random, but I do find it funny that my first post on this board was resurrected out of nowhere.