# A pair to draw to **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432 "2011-10-12T16:21:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/21 "2011-10-13T15:22:52Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I had to look up “14 words”. My eyes now feel gritty… > > I realize that incredulity is the most common reaction from families, but > This is someone who is very, very fucked up - and she up and abandoned her “little aryan warrior”, which seems a hint that she wasn’t as dedicated to her family as others thought. Hopefully her husband will be a better father than she’s a mother. Her husband also subscribes to the white power mantra. He was interviewed on the news last night and wouldn’t allow his face to be shown. He was just shocked that his wife would be involved in this. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/22 "2011-10-13T15:29:00Z")
I opened this hoping for a poker rant. Now I’m feeling depressed. Fuck. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/23 "2011-10-13T15:29:51Z")
I mean, I can see the husband’s perspective. White supremacy is good clean fun and all, but this woman was out there committing murder! That’s just crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/24 "2011-10-13T15:30:16Z")
Interesting about the “[14 words](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=14%20words)”. There are also [14 points of fascism](http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html), which sound remarkably like the far right’s platform. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/25 "2011-10-13T16:10:22Z")
> [@neuroman](#): > > I mean, I can see the husband’s perspective. White supremacy is good clean fun and all, but this woman was out there committing murder! That’s just crazy. Yes, this sort of thing could give white supremacy a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/26 "2011-10-13T16:26:32Z")
The white supremacy movement have made me ashamed to be white. Unfortunately, there’s little I can do about that fact, except to apologize to all those they’ve offended, harassed, tortured or murdered in the name of their cause. They better hope I’m never on a jury judging them. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/27 "2011-10-13T16:32:39Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The white supremacy movement have made me ashamed to be white. I’m happy to say that I’m kinda pinkish-tan-eggshell. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/28 "2011-10-13T16:43:18Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The white supremacy movement have made me ashamed to be white. Unfortunately, there’s little I can do about that fact, except to apologize to all those they’ve offended, harassed, tortured or murdered in the name of their cause. […] This is just…stupid. And unintentionally racist in its own right. Why and how does their evil reflect at all on your whiteness? Do the violent crimes committed by the Jewish Defense League mean that other Jews should all feel “ashamed” to be Jewish? The moment you go down this road, you come very, very close to blaming an entire race for the actions of a small few. That is the virtual dictionary definition of racism, and is exactly the sort of reasoning that white nationalists use in the first place (they point to inner-city crime, for example, as “proof” that African Americans are inferior, etc.). Like I said, this line of thinking is _stupid_. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/29 "2011-10-13T16:57:09Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > This is just…stupid. And unintentionally racist in its own right. Well said, Sir. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/30 "2011-10-14T12:55:52Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > This is just…stupid. And unintentionally racist in its own right. > > Why and how does their evil reflect at all on your whiteness? Do the violent crimes committed by the Jewish Defense League mean that other Jews should all feel “ashamed” to be Jewish? > > The moment you go down this road, you come very, very close to blaming an entire race for the actions of a small few. That is the virtual dictionary definition of racism, and is exactly the sort of reasoning that white nationalists use in the first place (they point to inner-city crime, for example, as “proof” that African Americans are inferior, etc.). > > Like I said, this line of thinking is _stupid_. I find white supremacy an embarrassment to the white race. Hopefully, I said it simple enough for you to understand this time. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/31 "2011-10-14T15:28:32Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I find white supremacy an embarrassment to the white race. Hopefully, I said it simple enough for you to understand this time. Oh, I understand alright. What I understand is that you think the repellent ideology or behavior of a tiny fraction of a given race reflects negatively on that entire race. And as I pointed out, that is EXACTLY the line of thinking that racists use to justify their racially-based hatred. It doesn’t matter that you’re a nice person who is deeply averse to racism and that you use the line of thinking for ideological good rather than evil. The point is, _you’re doing the same thing that racists do_. Now, if you’d like to make an actual _argument_ rather than simply _restating the stupidity_, I’m happy to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/32 "2011-10-14T19:56:56Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > Oh, I understand alright. > > What I understand is that you think the repellent ideology or behavior of a tiny fraction of a given race reflects negatively on that entire race. No, I think your problem has to do more with reading comprehension than what I’ve written. > [@Cyningablod](#): > > And as I pointed out, that is EXACTLY the line of thinking that racists use to justify their racially-based hatred. It doesn’t matter that you’re a nice person who is deeply averse to racism and that you use the line of thinking for ideological good rather than evil. The point is, _you’re doing the same thing that racists do_. Again, if you’d work on improving your reading comprehension, you might not fall victim to your wild imagination. > [@Cyningablod](#): > > Now, if you’d like to make an actual _argument_ rather than simply _restating the stupidity_, I’m happy to listen. Like I said, your problem isn’t listening, it’s understanding what’s been said. Would it help you if I posted in crayon? ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/33 "2011-10-14T20:24:09Z")
I get it. You don’t actually _have_ any arguments to make. You just like to try to insult people who call you out on your bullshit. Fair enough. See ya. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/34 "2011-10-14T20:40:16Z")
These things go to hell rather quickly. 🙂 I’d not be ashamed of my race for the actions of one person or even a group of people. Perhaps the closest I would come would be anger than some folks would consider me to be a racist because some folks in the South or Arkansas are racist. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/35 "2011-10-14T20:46:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > These things go to hell rather quickly. > 🙂 > I’d not be ashamed of my race for the actions of one person or even a group of people. Perhaps the closest I would come would be anger than some folks would consider me to be a racist because some folks in the South or Arkansas are racist. Right. But that’s an entirely different situation and sentiment than what **Morgenstern** expressed. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/36 "2011-10-14T20:50:15Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > Right. But that’s an entirely different situation and sentiment than what **Morgenstern** expressed. Don’t let me get in between you two. I’m a little guy, and I’ll get hurt! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/37 "2011-10-14T22:11:37Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > I get it. You don’t actually _have_ any arguments to make. You just like to try to insult people who call you out on your bullshit. > > Fair enough. > > See ya. You keep blaming me for your defective reading comprehension dude. But you’re beginning to get the point. There was no argument, there was a statement, an opinion, my opinion, and I offered it. You got your panties in a bunch and went off on a tangent and started ranting about an imagined point. I’d suggest you take your room temperature IQ back to the reading lab. I think that will help you in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/38 "2011-10-14T22:35:29Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You keep blaming me for your defective reading comprehension dude. But you’re beginning to get the point. There was no argument, there was a statement, an opinion, my opinion, and I offered it. I know it was just your opinion. And it was a profoundly fucking _stupid_ opinion. And I criticized it as such with an argument. I was giving you a chance (several, actually) to defend that opinion with, you know, a counterargument. If you choose not to defend it but DO choose to keep lobbing insults at me because I dared criticize it, well…to me that speaks volumes about how poorly-reasoned an opinion it is. > [@](#): > > You got your panties in a bunch and went off on a tangent and started ranting about an imagined point. Even mere opinions have points. That’s why people _offer_ them. But if I “imagined” a point where there was none–if your opinion didn’t _have_ a point–then you know what it was, by definition? _Pointless_. (So why make it in the first place??) Yet you got butthurt fast about someone calling that opinion stupid. Interesting. Methinks you’re trying to have it both ways: the freedom to express an opinion, but also the self-bestowed privilege of getting pissed when someone calls it stupid. Free expression doesn’t work that way, especially on the Dope. Speak your mind, but be ready for your ideas to be called stupid. (Either that, or this “just an opinion” stuff is your way of preemptively backing out of a discussion on it that you know you’re doomed to lose, as I succeeded in demonstrating its stupidity in my very first post on the matter.) > [@](#): > > I’d suggest you take your room temperature IQ back to the reading lab. I think that will help you in the future. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/39 "2011-10-14T22:48:22Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Myers sounded Jewish to them? WTF? That’s one of the most common names there is, and most people with it are not Jewish. I agree with your point. Having said that: I read once an anecdote that former Miss America Bess Myerson (Jewish) was asked to de-Semitize her name. Don’t know if that’s true. In the 1976 TV movie “Victory at Entebbe,” One of the Jewish hostages is trying to pass as non-Jewish. Bibi Besch, playing one of the most beautiful terrorists in movie history, looks at his passport and says, “Moshe?!. . . Meyer?!” And then she tells him to get back with the other Jews. While the movie script was fictional, apparently the writers thought that a name like “Meyer” was “Jewish enough.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432/40 "2011-10-14T23:04:33Z")
My Ex obtained medical appointments for us with a Doctor Zelnick because she believed him to be a Nice Jewish Boy. He told me that he had the same problem in college, he was asked to join various Jewish student organizations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pair-to-draw-to/599432.md?page=3)