# A part of American Democracy successfully exported to Iraq! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 24, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480 "2005-01-24T22:07:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/181 "2005-01-30T01:12:51Z")
OK, **Ryan\_Liam** , I’m going to try to arrange this so it makes some middling sense. Please feel free to correct me if necessary. For this sentence fragment > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Saddam portioned out electricity based on loyalty so therefore places like Baghdad got 24 hour power, and places like Basra got next to none,… you offer this cite: [Tribal Structures](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/tribes.htm) which does not state that other areas of Iraq were deprived of roads, electricity, and water systems in order to reward the tribes. Which is what you claimed. These two sentence fragments > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > … after the war, we with our kind hearts, decided there had to be equal distribution of the electricity being generated. So this is why Baghdad gets blackouts, … are so far unsupported. This sentence fragment > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > … contributing with the sabotage and attacks on the power stations. is true, and is supported by this cite: [http://ir04.events.pennnet.com/content.cfm?Navid=1656&Language=](http://ir04.events.pennnet.com/content.cfm?Navid=1656&Language=) This sentence > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Add this with a completely fucked up power system of distribution and outdated power stations, makes the situation worse. is so far unsupported. Thanks for trying! ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/182 "2005-01-30T01:19:35Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Yes, it is war, it has bad concequences, but I don’t think the processes we’ve created in Iraq, such as their freedom to speak out, to choose what government they want, overall we’ve done the right thing. I agree with you, but for all the good we do, blowing up a family sets us back. I think there are some good things being done, but I think the bad things are currently outweighing them. ---
**Author:** ![CMAR\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CMAR\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CMAR_II)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/183 "2005-01-30T02:12:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But suppose other people know that Saddam Hussein has done some very bad things, and they don’t trust his claims that he’s just trying to help you set up a free and stable government? If you go around not only calling him a “liberator” that you’d choose over your own countrymen, but actually murdering people who try to fight him, wouldn’t that be likely to lead to continued civil unrest and war? Aren’t those exactly the kind of tensions that are causing so much trouble in Iraq? Killing terrorists is not civil war. It is Law And Order. I would give Saddam the benefit of the doubt until he started treating me worse than my former dictators. If I could see steady progress of setting up free elections, I certainly would not claim that they were some sort of trick! That’s ludicrous. Especially if my former experience with elections was: “Vote for dictator or be arrested”. > [@Kimstu](#): > > I don’t think anybody really believes that Iraqis “don’t want liberty” or “can’t handle liberty”. I’m sure they’re all quite eager for liberty. That sounded like what FinnAgain was saying and he has **not** explained what _else_ was trying to say instead. > [@Kimstu](#): > > The question is, can enough of them agree on what the best course would be to actually achieve liberty? …Usually, they both think they’re on the side of the good. I expect most of the insurgents in Iraq really believe that they’re struggling to save Iraq, or Islam, or their own territory or tribe or whatever, from destruction or oppression at the hands of hostile powers, national or international. You can’t really solve a situation like that just by saying “Well, I know I’m fighting for liberty, so I’m going to blow off the worthless head of anybody who opposes me.” I’m afraid there are too many people saying that already. It worked in America. After the American colonies won independence from Britain, over 100K refugees left for Canada, Britain, and the Caribeans. That was 20% of the total population. Our forefathers hanged a lot of loyalists. They had no patience for those who could not see themselves as part of a free America. I don’t believe the Iraqis blowing up streets, churches, power lines and sewers, killing Iraqi policemen and national guardsmen believe they are fighting for liberty. They surely think they are in the right, but they don’t want liberty for all of their countrymen. Sooooo, the Iraqis who took part in Saddam’s regime or benefitted by proxy or who want to set up an Islamist state or for any other reason can’t see themselves as part of the new free Iraq will have to change, leave, or submit their bodies to fertilize the new Iraq. And the Iraqis are the ones who will have to ensure that. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > -Moron. We knocked out the power system, we didn’t allocate enough troops to protect them from future attacks, we didn’t get it back up and running. Stop being a nit picking idiot and trying to pass the buck, mmm kay? That is soooo ignorant of the facts. Iraq’s power infrastructure had totally decayed due to Saddam’s misappropriation of the Oil For Food funds and his refusal to VERIFY that he had destroyed his WMDs. I know Riverbend talks about how bad the electricity problem is in Baghdad, but she knows well…although she doesn’t say so…that while before the invasion Baghdad had plenty of electricity and so did some other cities that were Saddam favorites, OUTSIDE of Baghdad and especially in southern Iraq, they had long lived with limited power each day. Today Baghdad suffers along with the rest of Iraq with the problem of a degraded infrastructure that the terrorist keep damaging… **you know, those terrorists with the worthless heads no one is supposed to blow off**. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/184 "2005-01-30T02:30:21Z")
> [@](#): > > you offer this cite: [http://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...iraq/tribes.htm](http://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...iraq/tribes.htm) which does not state that other areas of Iraq were deprived of roads, electricity, and water systems in order to reward the tribes. Which is what you claimed. > [@](#): > > ``` > Under Saddam electricity in Iraq was sporadic and inequitably distributed. Often Baghdad had power at the expense of other parts of the country. Coalition officials want to distribute power more evenly and provide some consistency. > > ``` [http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-12-07-baghdad-sabotage\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-12-07-baghdad-sabotage_x.htm) > [@](#): > > Prewar Baghdad, the seat of Saddam Hussein’s power, typically received ample electricity during the day because Saddam siphoned electricity away from other regions to use in the capital. Today power is more evenly distributed, to the chagrin of Baghdad residents in particular. While rural areas and Kurdish regions are getting more power than ever, central Sunni areas have seen marked declines in power availability due to this reallocation. [http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/IraqWhereThingsStand/story?id=437852](http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/IraqWhereThingsStand/story?id=437852) > [@](#): > > Similarly, the U.K. Observer reported that Saddam allocated electricity to those regions most loyal to him and starved those that weren’t. Under Saddam, for example, Shia farmers in southern Iraq received so little electricity that they could irrigate their fields only one hour per day. [http://www.aim.org/media\_monitor/A226\_0\_2\_0\_C/](http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/A226_0_2_0_C/) > [@](#): > > The CPA, however, has a policy of distributing electricity more evenly around the country. Iraqi cities are now on a power-sharing system, whereby power is turned on in three-hour cycles. Shia farmers, according to the Observer, now get up to six hours of power daily in their region. And > [@](#): > > Saddam Hussein’s regime siphoned off electricity for Baghdad, leaving much of the south and north without 24-hour supplies. Al-Sammarae stressed that electricity distribution in the pre-war period was inequitable. > [@](#): > > “Under Saddam all provinces in Iraq suffered,” al-Sammarae said. “If there was 4,000 megawatts of generation, Baghdad would receive 3,500 megawatts. We are responsible for providing electricity to all provinces,” he maintained. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/185 "2005-01-30T02:31:25Z")
[http://www.aim.org/media\_monitor/A226\_0\_2\_0\_C/](http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/A226_0_2_0_C/) Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/186 "2005-01-30T02:37:30Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > Iraq’s power infrastructure had totally decayed due to … his refusal to VERIFY that he had destroyed his WMDs. . ??? There is some link between the decay of infrastructure and veifying the weapons status of Iraq? Why I might as well suggest **CMAR II** has family and friends involved in the war effort, or has unshakeable faith in the rightness of America and that is why his posts are emphatically pro-American agression. Simply an absurd suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![CMAR\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CMAR\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CMAR_II)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/187 "2005-01-30T02:44:09Z")
Sorry about the double post. 'Twas an accident. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/188 "2005-01-30T02:44:13Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > That is soooo ignorant of the facts. [We’ve already had this dance](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5778528&postcount=166) > [@CMAR II](#): > > Today Baghdad suffers along with the rest of Iraq with the problem of a degraded infrastructure that the terrorist keep damaging… **you know, those terrorists with the worthless heads no one is supposed to blow off**. No, I’m not aware of any terrorists whose heads are supposed to be spared. Sorry. But I will ask you this: If we cannot protect the Iraqi infrastructure, how can we claim to control the country of help the Iraqis? If we are unable to protect the Iraqi infrastructure, what does that say about our forces? If we did not plan for this contingency, and we’re unable to deal with it, what does that say about our leadership? Did we mismanage this because we were stupid, or because we’re sloppy, or a combination of both? ---
**Author:** ![CMAR\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CMAR\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CMAR_II)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/189 "2005-01-30T02:51:41Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > There is some link between the decay of infrastructure and veifying the weapons status of Iraq? Saddam’s refusal to verify the destruction of his WMDs caused the sanctions to continue for 12 years. That is PART of the reason why the infrastructure was degraded. The fact that Saddam was spending the money sifted with the help of the UN and other countries on palaces and special privileges for his favorites _and not the infrastructure_ was another reason. Sorry. I didn’t figure that needed spelling out. > [@Sevastopol](#): > > Why I might as well suggest **CMAR II** has family and friends involved in the war effort, or has unshakeable faith in the rightness of America and that is why his posts are emphatically pro-American agression. Simply an absurd suggestion. Based on that logic, I guess that means that **Sevastopol** is Saddam’s little sister or something. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/190 "2005-01-30T02:56:36Z")
Thank you, **Ryan**. I’ll pick at most of that tomorrow, though I’ll mention right now that in any country, if there is a limited supply of electricity, your capitol is going to get what it needs. That’s standard. If t’were only enough juice to supply Manchester or London, who would get it? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/191 "2005-01-30T02:59:41Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > Saddam’s refusal to verify the destruction of his WMDs caused the sanctions to continue for 12 years. That is PART of the reason why the infrastructure was degraded. The fact that Saddam was spending the money sifted with the help of the UN and other countries on palaces and special privileges for his favorites _and not the infrastructure_ was another reason. Striking a big blow for ignorance there. At exactly what date did this request for documented WMD destruction first occur? SH’s budgetting choices are just idle speculation. PS: Don’t forget the US are the bad guys, the liars murderers torturers theives in this war. ---
**Author:** ![CMAR\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CMAR\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CMAR_II)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/192 "2005-01-30T03:01:12Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > We’ve already had this dance Yes. It was made clear by me and others that the infrastructure was degraded and the only difference is the terrorists and the fact that Baghdad is now suffering with the rest of Iraq. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > No, I’m not aware of any terrorists whose heads are supposed to be spared. Sorry. Did you not read the rest of the post? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > But I will ask you this: > […] > Did we mismanage this because we were stupid, or because we’re sloppy, or a combination of both? It hasn’t been mismanaged. In 20 months we have conducted two of the three free elections in a Muslim Middle Eastern country in history. Rather than repeat myself, I’ll direct you [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5719862&postcount=35). ---
**Author:** ![CMAR\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CMAR\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CMAR_II)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/193 "2005-01-30T03:05:24Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > PS: Don’t forget the US are the bad guys, the liars murderers torturers theives in this war. Say “Hi” to your big brother for me when you visit him in jail. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/194 "2005-01-30T03:12:50Z")
So you _are_ connected with the US military! That it explains it: _“Men, your morale will suffer and you may die, if we tell the truth about Iraq. Therefore, today’s morale building sermon is as follows…” [/ **CMAR**]_ Sorry, doesn’t cut it here. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/195 "2005-01-30T03:14:32Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Thank you, **Ryan**. I’ll pick at most of that tomorrow, though I’ll mention right now that in any country, if there is a limited supply of electricity, your capitol is going to get what it needs. That’s standard. If t’were only enough juice to supply Manchester or London, who would get it? Even when theres money to invest in power and electricity plants? It was used as a weapon to ensure loyalty to the regime, Baghdad got it because Hussein lived there, and along with all the security apparatus. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/196 "2005-01-30T03:16:45Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > So you _are_ connected with the US military! > > That it explains it: > > _“Men, your morale will suffer and you may die, if we tell the truth about Iraq. Therefore, today’s morale building sermon is as follows…” [/ **CMAR**]_ > > Sorry, doesn’t cut it here. So anyone with a pro U.S agenda regarding Iraq immediately equates us with being Imperialists, U.S army connections, working for the CIA, and whatever bullshits thrown at us? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/197 "2005-01-30T03:24:09Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > Did you not read the rest of the post? I read what was addressed to me, I did not figure you’d be sniping at me in a conversation with someone else. I was wrong, so allow me to respond. First, insurgent =/= terrorist. Nobody in this thread has yet produced a single cite discussing the overall makup of the insurgency. The fact is, we just don’t know. Second > [@CMAR II](#): > > > [@Kimstu](#): > > > > I don’t think anybody really believes that Iraqis “don’t want liberty” or “can’t handle liberty”. I’m sure they’re all quite eager for liberty.That sounded like what > > FinnAgain was saying and he has not explained what else was trying to say instead. Your ignorance is really not my problem, I have said what I have said, I have not said what I have not said. I don’t need to explain a position to someone too lazy to read the thread I’m afraid, it’s boring. But I’ll toss you a bone, here goes: I’m not claiming anything about what they can or can’t handle, or what their society is or isn’t set up for. That’s a strawmen that some of y’all have been using to attempt to paint people who actually want to listen to the Iraqis, as racists. The fact of the matter is, and you would know this if you’d read the thread, iraqis themselves answered that they did not want a western style democracy. That was one of the specific questions in a poll I’ve posted, go look it up. > [@CMAR II](#): > > It hasn’t been mismanaged. We **meant** for this to happen? > [@CMAR II](#): > > In 20 months we have conducted two of the three free elections in a Muslim Middle Eastern country in history. Whee! Elections! Now show me the pragmatic good which has been done. Elections are oh so spiffy, but life sucks in Iraq for its citizens. But at least they get to vote. Panis et circenses. > [@CMAR II](#): > > Rather than repeat myself, I’ll direct you [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5719862&postcount=35). Oh boy, elections! Let’s talk after they’ve actually had the damn things, and we see if the peace holds. But, your willingness to count a flock of chickens before you’ve built a coop is quite touching. Moreoever, the Taliban was a regime which allowed global terrorism to flourish, but Sadaam’s was not. (please don’t bring up the promised but never paid offer of money to Palestinian suicide bombers, as if that had anything to do with American security anyway) ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/198 "2005-01-30T03:25:04Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > So anyone with a pro U.S agenda regarding Iraq immediately equates us with being Imperialists, U.S army connections, working for the CIA, and whatever bullshits thrown at us? So you are asserting you don’t have any military connections in the family, **ryan\_liam**? In answer to your question: No. **CMAR** let slip. I thought it only courteous to inform the newcomer that his brand of deciet is already well represented on this board. So he probably has nothing to contribute and should save his money. Seemed the charitable thing to do. After all, only last week we had someone go so far as to suggest the US has an honourable military tradition and merit respect. The Cheek of it! ---
**Author:** ![CMAR\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CMAR\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CMAR_II)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/199 "2005-01-30T03:49:33Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > First, insurgent =/= terrorist. > Nobody in this thread has yet produced a single cite discussing the overall makup of the insurgency. The fact is, we just don’t know. If you blow-up cars on the streets = terrorist. If you kill policemen = terrorist. Blowup powerlines, sewers, and your country’s resources = terrorist. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > The fact of the matter is, and you would know this if you’d read the thread, iraqis themselves answered that they did not want a western style democracy. That was one of the specific questions in a poll I’ve posted, go look it up. Oh! My mistake! You’re an idiot. And how does the current election resemble a “Western-style democracy” except the people are voting? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Oh boy, elections! Let’s talk after they’ve actually had the damn things, and we see if the peace holds. But, your willingness to count a flock of chickens before you’ve built a coop is quite touching. And your anxiousness to call the chicken dinner under-cooked when we have just started building the coop is a little sad. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Moreoever, the Taliban was a regime which allowed global terrorism to flourish, but Sadaam’s was not. (please don’t bring up the promised but never paid offer of money to Palestinian suicide bombers, as if that had anything to do with American security anyway) [Is that so?](http://slate.msn.com/id/2108636/) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/200 "2005-01-30T04:02:30Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > If you blow-up cars on the streets = terrorist. If you kill policemen = terrorist. Blowup powerlines, sewers, and your country’s resources = terrorist. And what to do when, as I’ve already proven, your country’s police are thugs who torture innocent people? Wouldn’t that mean that the invasion set up a regime that’s aping the old one, and just as immoral? Go back to sleep. > [@CMAR II](#): > > Oh! My mistake! You’re an idiot. And how does the current election resemble a “Western-style democracy” except the people are voting? Actually, you’re the one behaving life a clown. First, you haven’t read the polls, and you call me an idiot? Second, Iraqis specifially said they did not want a western style democracy, that was the exact question they were asked and a majority said no. Third, none of this points to your moronic strawman that anybody, at all, is claiming that they can’t “handle” freedom because they’re Arab of Muslim or whatever. Fourth, shut the fuck up. > [@CMAR II](#): > > And your anxiousness to call the chicken dinner under-cooked when we have just started building the coop is a little sad. Bad analogy moron. The elections haven’t happened yet, I’m saying to restrain your optimism until we see the actual results, because currently the country is in chaos. You’re claiming that the very fact they’re happening is some sort of weird magic that’ll make Iraq a ‘good thing’. All facts on the ground point to continued chaos, why you think waving the magic election wand will solve things I don’t know. Schmuck. > [@CMAR II](#): > > [Is that so?](http://slate.msn.com/id/2108636/) Blah blah blah. The 9/11 panel specifically said there was no credible link between Sadaam and AQ. [CIA report finds no Zarqawi-Saddam link](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6189795/) Swing and a miss. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480.md?page=11)