# A part of American Democracy successfully exported to Iraq! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 24, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480 "2005-01-24T22:07:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/201 "2005-01-30T04:09:32Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > It hasn’t been mismanaged. In 20 months we have conducted two of the three free elections in a Muslim Middle Eastern country in history. Rather than repeat myself, I’ll direct you [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5719862&postcount=35). Are you kidding me? Karzai controls about 2 square blocks of Kabul. They may have elected him, but he certainly doesn’t run the place. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/202 "2005-01-30T04:29:41Z")
**FinnAgain** , if you think I’ve taken over **Ryan\_Liam** just so you can play pepper with **CMAR II** , you’re sadly mistaken. Well, maybe not. We’ll see how long my patience lasts. ---
**Author:** ![CMAR\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@CMAR\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CMAR_II)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/203 "2005-01-30T04:52:03Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Are you kidding me?Karzai controls about 2 square blocks of Kabul. They may have elected him, but he certainly doesn’t run the place. Hmmm…amazing how the territory that Karzai controls is continuously shrinking. I answered this [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5719806&postcount=34). > [@FinnAgain](#): > > And what to do when, as I’ve already proven, your country’s police are thugs who torture innocent people? Wouldn’t that mean that the invasion set up a regime that’s aping the old one, and just as immoral? I can’t imagine why you would come to that conclusion unless you are saying that New York and Los Angeles are ruled by terror regimes. Meanwhile the Iraqi police in much of Iraq face their own murder and that of their families just for coming to work. I don’t care what you say they’ve done. These guys are heroes whose asses arm-chair moralists do not deserve to kiss. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > First, you haven’t read the polls, and you call me an idiot? > Second, Iraqis specifially said they did not want a western style democracy, that was the exact question they were asked and a majority said no. > Third, none of this points to your moronic strawman that anybody, at all, is claiming that they can’t “handle” freedom because they’re Arab of Muslim or whatever. I have read the polls but you’ve yet to show that anyone is actually TRYING to install a “Western-style democracy”. The only thing being “forced down their throats” (YOUR WORDS) is elections to select Iraqi leaders to form an Iraqi constitution. So defend that, take it back, or mutter back into your corner. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Bad analogy moron. The elections haven’t happened yet, I’m saying to restrain your optimism until we see the actual results, because currently the country is in chaos. You’re claiming that the very fact they’re happening is some sort of weird magic that’ll make Iraq a ‘good thing’. All facts on the ground point to continued chaos, why you think waving the magic election wand will solve things I don’t know. Most of the country is at peace. Parts of 4 districts have an organized criminal element that is actively attacking the police, the national guard, such insidious quislings as Water Works employees, the infrastruction and resources of the nation, and the Shi’a and Christians in a so far utterly failed attempt to start a civil war. You’ve been watching too much “If it bleeds, it leads” newscasts. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Blah blah blah. The 9/11 panel specifically said there was no credible link between Sadaam and AQ. Swing and a miss. There was no Saddam-Osama treaty. But Zarqawi WAS that link. You’d have to have your hands clamped tightly over you eyes to think differently. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/204 "2005-01-30T05:01:33Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > …There was no Saddam-Osama treaty. But Zarqawi WAS that link. You’d have to have your hands clamped tightly over you eyes to think differently. Darn! If only you’d been there to tell them, they wouldn’t have made such a dumb mistake! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/205 "2005-01-30T06:47:42Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > Hmmm…amazing how the territory that Karzai controls is continuously shrinking. > I answered this [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5719806&postcount=34). What a fool you are! "Well, um, yes, they don’t control, 70% of the country, but, um, some of that 70% is all like, out of the way… _A country that’s 70% out of control is 70% out of control._ That one earns a big ‘duh’ spunky, you bucking for the crown of ideologue too? > [@CMAR II](#): > > I can’t imagine why you would come to that conclusion unless you are saying that New York and Los Angeles are ruled by terror regimes. Ignorant schmuck! Read this very thread before you open your uninformed mouth. I’ve already proven that the Iraqi police have simply kept open the torture rooms and now do all the same stuff they did under Sadaam. Be willfully ignorant of this if you want, just don’t expect us to clap for your stupidity. > [@CMAR II](#): > > Meanwhile the Iraqi police in much of Iraq face their own murder and that of their families just for coming to work. I don’t care what you say they’ve done. No, idiot, you’re **ignorant** of what they’ve done. You probably also don’t care, but that’s neither here nor there. > [@CMAR II](#): > > These guys are heroes whose asses arm-chair moralists do not deserve to kiss. Schmuck. You think the innocent people they torture agree with you? Someone’s an arm-chair general. Guess whether it’s you or me. > [@CMAR II](#): > > I have read the polls but you’ve yet to show that anyone is actually TRYING to install a “Western-style democracy”. [Moron, read the fucking thread before you open your mouth](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5775588&postcount=112) 51% of Iraqis polled said that democracy itself wouldn’t work. That they didn’t want it. That it was a western way of doing things. If you’re stupid enough to doubt that the Bush regime has a stated goal of instilling democracy… > [@CMAR II](#): > > The only thing being “forced down their throats” (YOUR WORDS) is elections to select Iraqi leaders to form an Iraqi constitution. . Ignorant little asshole, you come to this thread and don’t even have the class to freakin’ read it. What a tool. And as for what’s being forced down their throats, just about everything from not allowing ‘extreme’ candidates to gain power to our troops staying in their steets even though they want us gone. > [@CMAR II](#): > > Most of the country is at peace. [Except their capitol city](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/27/international/middleeast/27baghdad.html?oref=login&pagewanted=all&position=) Hell, you can’t even get to the airport alive. Does this sink in at any point to your brain? The country is so damn at peace that you’ll get made real dead if you try to get on a plane and leave. Moreoever, [This control is rather ephemeral](http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=4265) And, your ‘facts’ are totally innacurate[In his remarks Thursday, Allawi did not specify the three provinces he deemed insecure, nor did he specify what he meant when he contended that violence in those provinces had been limited to “certain pockets.” But since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003, Baghdad and three of the country’s largest and most populous provinces – Anbar in the west, Salahuddin to the north and Babil to the south – have been the principal hotbeds of insurgent violence. And according to the Kroll reports, recent violence appears to have been widespread rather than limited. On Wednesday, for instance, attacks in Salahuddin province occurred in Taji, Balad, Tikrit, Samarra, Baiji, Thuliyah and Dujayl – the seven largest population centers in the area.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50259-2004Sep25.html) > [@CMAR II](#): > > You’ve been watching too much “If it bleeds, it leads” newscasts. Nice try spunky. If the reality is that Iraq is a mess, guess what we’ll see on the news? Or do you want us to ignore the rampant nation-wide violence because… you say so? Mmm hmmm, good plan. > [@CMAR II](#): > > There was no Saddam-Osama treaty. But Zarqawi WAS that link. Oh ,I see, if you put it in caps, your lies become truth. That’s a neat trick man! In case you’re wondering, there was no ‘link’ at all because Sadaam and Bin Laden hated each other. [If you read a transcript of it, you’ll find that bin Laden repeatedly condemns Saddam and his Baath Party as “socialists” and “infidels.”](http://www.progressive.org/webex/wx0201303.html) There was **no** link, just because you’re stupid enough to insist on it doesn’t make it true. > [@CMAR II](#): > > You’d have to have your hands clamped tightly over you eyes to think differently. Riiiiiight. Becuse like, the facts support the position that there was no link, and the facts get in the way of your lies, so anybody who believes the facts rather than your lies is… um… wrong? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/206 "2005-01-30T07:35:24Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I agree with you, but for all the good we do, blowing up a family sets us back. It wouldn’t be so bad if a high-ranking government official – like, say, the President of the United States – would sternly denounce such incidents and have a high-profile investigation into finding out who screwed up, busting the appropriate asses, and making reparations to the surviving family members. He could even say something noble about how the United States has zero tolerance for innocents killed in America’s name, or somesuch. Of course, that’d require a kind of leadership that takes responsibility for its actions, that doesn’t shy away from admitting its mistakes, and that has the courage to right its own wrongs – _i.e.,_ the diametric opposite of George W. Bush and the Legion of Shifty-Eyed Weasels™. And I find it outright :eek: that **Ryan\_Liam** apparently doesn’t have any qualms with the idea that a half-dozen kids have been traumatized by having their parents blown away and being splattered with their blood and guts… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/207 "2005-01-30T08:26:56Z")
Democracy is messy. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/208 "2005-01-30T08:34:34Z")
Especially when it enters your body at high velocity and dumps its kinetic energy into you, causing hydrostatic shock and blowing you to pieces. Damn democracy. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/209 "2005-01-30T09:53:57Z")
This link was posted in another thread, notice the people, evidently murdered in their sleep with blankets over them [Warning! Very graphic pictures of dead Iraqis](http://dahrjamailiraq.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album28&page=1) Democracy: high caliber democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/210 "2005-01-30T12:24:42Z")
**CMAR II** > [@](#): > > If you blow-up cars on the streets = terrorist. If you kill policemen = terrorist. Blowup powerlines, sewers, and your country’s resources = terrorist. Eh? That’s a very dubious position isn’t it? For instance, how is blowing up cars on a street any different in effect from dropping a bomb from a plane onto the same street? If one is automatically a terrorist activity, why not the other? As for blowing up powerlines and infrastructure, as we have already established, that was a tactic employed by US forces before/during the invasion as well, are you calling them terrorists? Likewise killing policemen. Killing a policeman does not make someone a terrorist on its own, again do you think that none of Saddam’s policemen were killed by US forces during the invasion? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/211 "2005-01-30T12:30:53Z")
Can you shoot the Iraqi police forces who’re arresting and torturing innocent people? Wasn’t that one of our rationalizations for regime change, that Sadaam tortured innocent people? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/212 "2005-01-30T12:52:16Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > So you are asserting you don’t have any military connections in the family, **ryan\_liam**? > > In answer to your question: No. **CMAR** let slip. I thought it only courteous to inform the newcomer that his brand of deciet is already well represented on this board. So he probably has nothing to contribute and should save his money. Seemed the charitable thing to do. After all, only last week we had someone go so far as to suggest the US has an honourable military tradition and merit respect. The Cheek of it! You asshole, so because he has _military_ connections he’s not allowed to share out his informed view or opinions? Or because they happen to be pro US they’re somehow disregarded? Hell, I’ve heared more than enough military personnel have their opinion it was wrong, why’s it so bad to hear someone who says it was right? And for the record no, I don’t have military connections. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/213 "2005-01-30T16:45:31Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > **FinnAgain** , if you think I’ve taken over **Ryan\_Liam** just so you can play pepper with **CMAR II** , you’re sadly mistaken. Well, maybe not. We’ll see how long my patience lasts. _Your paitence?_ what makes you the moral superior? Or FinnAgain, on this board? > [@](#): > > Can you shoot the Iraqi police forces who’re arresting and torturing innocent people? Would you shoot the Iraqi police who are trying to help you live a normal life without threat of being blown to pieces because you happen to have a differing opinion? > [@](#): > > Eh? That’s a very dubious position isn’t it? For instance, how is blowing up cars on a street any different in effect from dropping a bomb from a plane onto the same street? Number one = We don’t target civilians Number two = We’re not _intentionally_ doing it to strike fear into the population. > [@](#): > > As for blowing up powerlines and infrastructure, as we have already established, that was a tactic employed by US forces before/during the invasion as well, are you calling them terrorists? Likewise killing policemen We were at war with an nation state, which follows some rules of war, some codes of conduct, these terrorists don’t, and show a blatant disregard for anyone and anything. Equating the US Army with terrorist forces is one of the most blatant disrespectful things I’ve seen on this board. > [@](#): > > **FinnAgain** > > This link was posted in another thread, notice the people, evidently murdered in their sleep with blankets over them Are we supposed to be emotionally blackmailed into supporting your thesis by using pictures of dead bodies to justify your claims the US is an imperialistic facist aggressor hell bent on subjigating Iraq, because it isn’t working. [Al Sunnah blows up election centre](http://www.ogrish.com/archives/ansar_al_sunnah_blows_up_election_center_video_Jan_29_2005.html) [Ministry of interior member executed](http://www.ogrish.com/archives/alqaeda_in_iraq_execute_salim_abed_a_member_of_the_iraq_ministry_of_interior_Jan_27_2005.html) [Al Sunnah execute national guardsmen](http://www.ogrish.com/archives/army_of_ansar_al_sunnah_executes_an_iraqi_national_guardsman_Jan_24_2005.html) Some heroes :rolleyes: No one has denied the US has been heavy handed in its treatment of civilians, but when I see the extreme brutality of the ‘resistance’ and their allies, I know what we’re fighting for is right. > [@](#): > > **FinnAgain** > > Especially when it enters your body at high velocity and dumps its kinetic energy into you, causing hydrostatic shock and blowing you to pieces. Damn democracy. 'Coz we all know Democracy comes from a sword to the back of the head right? Yeah, damn democracy indeed asshole. > [@](#): > > **Rjung** > > and making reparations to the surviving family members. Erm we do? [http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200305/051403.html](http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200305/051403.html) > [@](#): > > “$2.4 billion is appropriated for Iraq relief and reconstruction in Iraq] including for the costs of (1) feeding and food distribution; (2) supporting relief efforts related to refugees, internally displaced persons, and vulnerable individuals, including assistance for families of innocent Iraqi civilians who suffer losses as a result of military operations;” > [@](#): > > **Rjung** > > And I find it outright that Ryan\_Liam apparently doesn’t have any qualms with the idea that a half-dozen kids have been traumatized by having their parents blown away and being splattered with their blood and guts… I do have sympathy for them, and its completely wrong for what happened to of ever taken place, but lets be realistic, Iraq is in a war time situation, against a vicious and very terrible enemy. People will be killed, its a known fact. I agree we should limit the amount of idiocy some troops do. I think its traumatizing for any nation to experience a foe who wants to enslave them to either the ideology is militant Islamism, or Baa’thist tyranny. > [@](#): > > **FinnAgain** > > That one earns a big ‘duh’ spunky, you bucking for the crown of ideologue too? What would you propose we do? Send in the tanks along side another 100,000 soldiers like the soviets did and systematically destroy the country to bring them into line? No ones denying that its going to take time to bring in some unity and authority to the government of Afghanistan, but the plain fact that 70% of the population which were of voting age, actually voted and selected a president they wanted, speaks volumes for the support he actually gets, and the Warlords know this. > [@](#): > > Read this very thread before you open your uninformed mouth. I’ve already proven that the Iraqi police have simply kept open the torture rooms and now do all the same stuff they did under Sadaam. Be willfully ignorant of this if you want, just don’t expect us to clap for your stupidity. Percentages please. > [@](#): > > No, idiot, you’re ignorant of what they’ve done. You probably also don’t care, but that’s neither here nor there. So those new recruits who just started to work for the police somehow tortured civilians before they joined? You’re starting to clutch at straws, trying to say anything to prove to us that they’re nothing but Nazis in blue uniforms, you asshole. > [@](#): > > Someone’s an arm-chair general. Guess whether it’s you or me. Yeah it could be both of us, but at least we weigh the pros and cons fairly. > [@](#): > > 51% of Iraqis polled said that democracy itself wouldn’t work. That they didn’t want it. That it was a western way of doing things. If you’re stupid enough to doubt that the Bush regime has a stated goal of instilling democracy… That leaves 49% who do think its something to attain, and I bet a large portion of those 51% are doubtful only because of the security situation, Zarqawi and the other terrorists plotting to destroy them, and given the fact this is the first free election since 1958, it kinda skews that 51% you’re talking about. > [@](#): > > Ignorant little asshole, you come to this thread and don’t even have the class to freakin’ read it. What a tool. And as for what’s being forced down their throats, just about everything from not allowing ‘extreme’ candidates to gain power to our troops staying in their steets even though they want us gone. The supreme council for Islamic revolution, the Islamic party, the Dawa Party, the fucking Communist party, are not extreme? even though some of the back list of candidates in Sistanis blessed list have funding from Iran, even Sadr has fielded candidates under the auspices of different names, is this extreme enough for you?The backed list by Sistani is expected to win, moron. You know what FinnAgain, since you’re such the expert, lets hear the ideas other than democracy and free speech you have in mind in replacing US ‘domination and imperialism’ at the table. > [@](#): > > That it was a western way of doing things. Selecting a government to rule the country in a representative manner is a ‘western way of doing things?’ ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/214 "2005-01-30T19:30:13Z")
> [@CMAR II](#): > > There was no Saddam-Osama treaty. But Zarqawi WAS that link. You’d have to have your hands clamped tightly over you eyes to think differently. OH yeah? Put this in your pipe and smoke it motherfucker. Bolding mine. > [@](#): > > But NBC News has learned that long before the war the Bush administration had several chances to wipe out his terrorist operation and perhaps kill Zarqawi himself — but never pulled the trigger. > > In June 2002, U.S. officials say intelligence had revealed that Zarqawi and members of al-Qaida had set up a weapons lab at Kirma, in northern Iraq, producing deadly ricin and cyanide. > > The Pentagon quickly drafted plans to attack the camp with cruise missiles and airstrikes and sent it to the White House, where, according to U.S. government sources, the plan was debated to death in the National Security Council. > > … > > Four months later, intelligence showed Zarqawi was planning to use ricin in terrorist attacks in Europe. > > The Pentagon drew up a second strike plan, and the White House again killed it. By then the administration had set its course for war with Iraq. > > … > > In January 2003, the threat turned real. Police in London arrested six terror suspects and discovered a ricin lab connected to the camp in Iraq. > > The Pentagon drew up still another attack plan, and for the third time, the National Security Council killed it. > > Military officials insist their case for attacking Zarqawi’s operation was airtight, **but the administration feared destroying the terrorist camp in Iraq could undercut its case for war against Saddam.** [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/) Simply put, if they killed him, they couldn’t say AQ was operating in Iraq, so they let him live. Your Govt. at work. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/215 "2005-01-30T19:51:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Number one = We don’t target civilians Tosh. But many of the bombings in Iraq don’t appear to target civilians. Lots of them kill civilians, of course, but so do lots of American bombs. > [@](#): > > Number two = We’re not intentionally doing it to strike fear into the population. Oh right. So, your position is that it was the _infrastructure of Iraq_ that Bush wanted to ‘Shock and Awe’. Not the people… > [@](#): > > Equating the US Army with terrorist forces is one of the most blatant disrespectful things I’ve seen on this board. That was my point. **CMAR II** gave a list of certain actions that automatically equal ‘terrorist’ in his/her mind, I was pointing out the obvious drawback of that. Why quote me if you’re agreeing with me? > [@](#): > > We were at war with an nation state, which follows some rules of war, some codes of conduct 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/216 "2005-01-30T19:57:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh right. So, your position is that it was the infrastructure of Iraq that Bush wanted to ‘Shock and Awe’. Not the people… Exactly. And the regime too 🙂 > [@](#): > > That was my point. CMAR II gave a list of certain actions that automatically equal ‘terrorist’ in his/her mind, I was pointing out the obvious drawback of that. Why quote me if you’re agreeing with me? Because it looked like you were equating the US army with a bunch of terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/217 "2005-01-30T20:05:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Because it looked like you were equating the US army with a bunch of terrorists. **CMAR II** was (I suspect inadvertantly) constructing a definition of ‘terrorist’ that would have included members of the US Army. I was pointing it out. See the typing you could save yourself if you actually read things properly before you replied to them. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/218 "2005-01-30T20:44:18Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Number one = We don’t target civilians > > Number two = We’re not _intentionally_ doing it to strike fear into the population. [Not](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2927527.stm) [true](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/aug2003/aljz-a27.shtml). ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/219 "2005-01-30T21:09:12Z")
Yeah because killing civilians in their beds while they’re asleep isn’t killing innocents. There’s a newspeak word for it somewhere, but we’ve not yet been informed. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480/220 "2005-01-30T21:11:18Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yeah because killing civilians in their beds while they’re asleep isn’t killing innocents. There’s a newspeak word for it somewhere, but we’ve not yet been informed. Probably was tossed down a memory hole at the Pentagon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-part-of-american-democracy-successfully-exported-to-iraq/286480.md?page=12)