# A parting gift for the homophobes **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2002, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299 "2002-09-06T15:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/21 "2002-09-06T22:17:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*Guys, back off for a minute or two, and let her respond to what I had to say. **Dreamer** and **Joe Cool** , if you’re lurking, your opinions would be valuable too. > > I think you’re perceiving hate in someone who is not feeling it. I’ve seen homophobic bigotry, and I’ve seen people committed to their faith who think they need to oppose gay rights on account of it, and I believe I can tell the difference. And **H4E** seems to fall into the second category, based on what I’ve read from her. Give her a chance to prove me right or wrong, willya? \*\* Sooorryyy! I probably should have kept my mouth shut. But, even thought the thread wasn’t addressed to me by name, it was addresssed to what the poster considered to be homophobes so I felt the need to answer. I don’t consider myself by that name but I know he does. You’re right in that I fall into the category of opposing gay rights by reason of my faith. I don’t hate them at all. One can condemn a behaviour without hating the person (love the sinner, hate the sin) as anyone should know. I’ve seen at least one gay thread on the board that I haven’t said anything in, so I’m not trying to get another whole gay conversation going. I simple felt like responding to a thread addressed to homophopes of which I know I’m considered to be one, that’s all. I’m curious, am I the only one on the board that believes this behaviour is wrong or are there others who just don’t say anything because they’d probably get in trouble? Anyway, though my intent isn’t to get everyone all in an uproar, that’s hard to do with certain subjects. I try to share the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15) but perhaps I have failed to be loving enough. No matter how I say it, some people are going to take it as hate and that’s simply not true. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/22 "2002-09-06T22:31:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m curious, am I the only one on the board that believes this behaviour is wrong or are there others who just don’t say anything because they’d probably get in trouble? No, there’s no shortage of people on this board – and life in general – whose brains don’t work right. ---
**Author:** ![Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/23 "2002-09-06T22:42:42Z")
Girlfriend, you are so full of shit it flows out of yer ears… or mouth. That is my one and only dip into profanity and name callin…from here out I shall be a good girl. Oh except that the Bible also prohibits women from religious discourse… you naughty wench. And it allows slavery so shall I start the auctioning at ummmmmm 2 cents??? I am sure with a gag she’ll be a lovely slave.😉 MrVisible I loved that speech! May I borrow and quote it on another mb dedicated to Gay Civil Rights? I think my friends there would enjoy it immensely. ---
**Author:** ![Daowajan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@Daowajan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daowajan)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/24 "2002-09-06T22:45:01Z")
I got a parting gift for the homophobes too. And not just **His4Ever** , in case you were wondering. Oh wait, you can’t hear it through the internet, so let me tell you what it is. It’s the sound of an unknown huge mass of people, thinking, at least on some subconscious level, “5…4…3…” Don’t let the doorknob hit you in the ass; you know what _that_ might represent. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/25 "2002-09-06T22:49:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*No matter how I say it, some people are going to take it as hate and that’s simply not true. \*\* Then perhaps you need to reexamine the message. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/26 "2002-09-06T23:16:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > **You’re right in that I fall into the category of opposing gay rights by reason of my faith. I don’t hate them at all. One can condemn a behaviour without hating the person (love the sinner, hate the sin) as anyone should know.** Screw that weak crap. In this case, the “sin” **is** the person. Homosexual isn’t something you **do** , it’s something you **are**. And if you _looooooooved_ them as much as you seem to think you do, you wouldn’t let **your** status as a Christian interfere with **them** claiming and exercising **their** full rights as Americans and as human beings. We are not a theocracy, and **any** objection to equal rights based on a religious objection is bullshit. Practice whatever discrimination you want in your church and your religion – it’s yours, you picked it, and if you want to be a bigot, knock yourself out. But these men and women are **human beings** , and they live in **my** country under **my** Constitution. You have **no** moral authority to be “opposed” to their rights. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/27 "2002-09-06T23:18:10Z")
His4Ever, please try to remember what Jesus said was THE ULTIMATE COMMANDMENT, sometimes translated as THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT. “To love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and all thy mind and all thy soul…AND…TO LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” Also, remember that all a person has to do to get into the Kingdom of God is to believe that Jesus is the Savior, the Son of God, sent to die for our Sins on the cross. He made that ultimate sacrifice of himself so that all of us could experience the unconditional, freeing love of God. One of the greatest Christians I know is so freaking gay he signs his letters “Dorothy Parker”, and he SHAMES me with his faith and love and compassion. ease up. Study the scripture, but study the interpretations as well. I believe the Bible IS the word of God. I also believe Hamlet is the word of Shakespeare, and it took me about fifteen years to understand THAT. J ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/28 "2002-09-06T23:31:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > One can condemn a behaviour without hating the person (love the sinner, hate the sin) as anyone should know. Are you net able to make the distinction between **being** gay and engaging in “homosexual acts”? There _IS_ a difference:) I can think of one on this board just off the top of my head, if you need it. > [@](#): > > I’m curious, am I the only one on the board that believes this behaviour is wrong or are there others who just don’t say anything because they’d probably get in trouble? There are others on this board who believe homosexuality is a choice and that engaging in what can be the resulting behavior (and yes, they use that whole “homosexual lifestyle” bit as well). Most of them don’t frequent the Pit … at least, the ones I can think of at the moment generally don’t. And I posit to you that what you believe to be the truth may, in fact, not be. As has been said so many times before. And as will continue to be said unless and until you at least can work in “In My Opinion”, or “What I believe (and I may be wrong)” into your Biblical opinions. Because that’s what they are, just as **Polycarp** ’s beliefs on the Bible’s teachings are his (very well-thought-out) opinions. Ultimately there’s only one guy who knows, and He ain’t a member here;) ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/29 "2002-09-06T23:46:41Z")
Wow, I’m just floored at the venom and hatred around here. And you guys are calling His4Ever a hater? Bunch of frigging hypocrites. Amazing. Simply amazing. ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/30 "2002-09-06T23:46:49Z")
OK **Polycarp** , I’m only coming in here for you ;). IMO I think **His4ever** _truly_ believes that God says homosexual behavior is wrong. I think she’s read the scriptures and is interpreting them her way. I don’t _really_ think she _hates_ gay people, I just think that she thinks they are doing a terrible sin against God and she feels the need to say so. Unfortunately she hasn’t listened to ALL the advice given to her about **love one another as yourself** and she still isn’t getting it that it looks very hateful when she says all these things. I hate to admit it, but I know where she is coming from. I have, in the past, taken things from the scripture in a literal sense and offended people. I’m _very_ grateful to have come to the realization that that isn’t the way God wants his servants to be. Anyway **His4ever** , you really need to **PAY CLOSE ATTENTION**. When you say things like this … > [@](#): > > And please don’t think the day is going to some when everyone is going to accept this lifestyle as good and right because it won’t happen as long as there are Bible believing Christians on this earth. We care to much to lie to you and make you feel comfortable in your wrong lifestyle, I’m sorry. Do you see that **YOU** are the one saying \*\*YOU \*\*don’t accept their lifestyle? Don’t you think? And when you say that so clearly it looks very mean and hateful to others, and that’s not what a **“Bible Believing Christian”** is supossed to be. RIGHT? Do you think that eveyone here on this board does not know what the bible says already? Do you think \*\*JUDGING \*\*them right here on this board is the right way for a Christian to act? I surely hope not my friend. What I’m trying to say is that it’s not cool for you to be so condeming when we’re supposed to love each other with the love of God. I mean aern’t you a sinner? Do you do things daily that God says not to do? I sure do and I sure wouldn’t appreciate someone going around preaching to me about every little thing I do. _ **Especially** _ if I didn’t even follow their line of beliefs. Is this making sense? I’m not going to repeat myself here but I will ask that you **PLEASE** in the future, refrain from any judgemental posts like that. It’s _not_ nice, it’s _not_ loving and it has\*\* _condemnation_\*\* written all over it, and as you know there is **NO condemnation is Christ.** So if it is your goal to be Christ Like here, I seriously suggest you think about what you say before you say it. \*\*\*Focus on the grace - Focus on the grace - Focus on the grace \*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/31 "2002-09-06T23:49:08Z")
The really amazing thing is that if the roles here were switched, an admin would have already closed the thread and banned people for hate speech. But as I suspected already, hate speech is perfectly ok as long as you hate the PC-ok bad people. Sorry, **Polycarp** , I have no desire to take part in this nursery. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/32 "2002-09-06T23:50:52Z")
Joe\_Cool, you are absolutely not helping by just crying foul instead of contributing. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/33 "2002-09-06T23:57:30Z")
> [@](#): > > The really amazing thing is that if the roles here were switched, an admin would have already closed the thread and banned people for hate speech. But as I suspected already, hate speech is perfectly ok as long as you hate the PC-ok bad people. So **H4E** gets to tell me that my life, my relationship, and my deepest feelings are inherently evil because they don’t please her god? Fuck you! It’s people like you who preach about how awful gay people are that encourages gaybashing. It’s people like you who make it legal to fire me for being gay, to evict me for being gay, to treat me as less than equal, less than human because I’m gay. You fundies are the American Taliban. You are our bin Laden. You are the forces of evil. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2002, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/34 "2002-09-06T23:59:06Z")
Lest anyone think I simply dislike **H4e** because she’s a fundamentalist and I’m an atheist, I just want to say: **dreamer** , you’re all right. 😉 Way to be, lady! And **Joe\_Cool**? Bite me. I’m not a Christian, so I don’t have to love my neighbor. I try to love most of them, most of the time, but I feel free to make an exception when the neighbor is particularly objectionable. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/35 "2002-09-07T00:03:07Z")
Geez Ferrous. Why is dreamer way to be and not me ☹ 😉 J ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/36 "2002-09-07T00:09:08Z")
Truly, Joe, the light of Christ shines from you like a beacon unto the world. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/37 "2002-09-07T00:10:18Z")
Aw, sorry Jar! You’re aces too, of course! But I didn’t really place you in the “fundamentalist” camp. I thought you were, um… I don’t know, just your basic Christian. 🙂 Oops! Gotta run. I’ll see y’all next week. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/38 "2002-09-07T00:12:50Z")
Oh right. Yes. I’m not a fundamentalist. I understand now. J ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/39 "2002-09-07T00:13:43Z")
HERSELF4EVER – > [@](#): > > Well, that’s certainly a very nice speech, Mr. Visible. While you have decided to resort to name calling, I won’t respond in kind. (A) He didn’t call anyone a name, though I find it very telling you would immediate chime in in defense of the homophobes, though now you disavow the title again. But of course, if you didn’t think the term included you, you wouldn’t have responded. (B) If my choice is between being called a name and having some sanctimonious no-nothing gratuitiously “disapprove” of my “lifestyle,” go ahead and call me a name. Do not delude yourself that you post was any less attacking than his was; it was clearly more so. > [@](#): > > I just wish to say that no matter what you think I don’t consider myself a lunatic or hateful nor do I consider my beliefs contemptable. Yes, dear, but then the hateful rarely do, and the crazy and/or contemptible _never_ do. > [@](#): > > I believe, as you know, that the contemptable beliefs you talk about are based on what God has to say about it in His word. Ah, yes. This would be the Word that you refuse to defend because you cannot show how your Bible-based beliefs make any sense in light of what the Bible actually says. In light of your utter failure in that defense, who gives a rat’s ass what you believe? > [@](#): > > My question for you is, what if we’re right? Then what? Then God is not the God of goodness, love and forgiveness, but rather a god who would create people to feel love but them damn them for expressing it – a god unworthy of respect, much less adoration. What if you’re right? God help us all! But then, if you’re right, there isn’t any loving God to help us, is there? So we’re all screwed and we may as well in turn screw whatever or whomever we like. > [@](#): > > And please don’t think the day is going to some when everyone is going to accept this lifestyle as good and right because it won’t happen as long as there are Bible believing Christians on this earth. You mean Biblical literalists? I guess it wouldn’t bother me if you all passed from the earth – heck, go away all at once, _a la_ the Rapture and that stupid book series. But if we can’t get rid of you, we can at least reveal you as the ignorant naive zealots that you are, whenever you choose to post your divisive shit in the name of God. > [@](#): > > We care to much to lie to you and make you feel comfortable in your wrong lifestyle, I’m sorry. Woe to you, you hypocrites and Pharisees! Care about him? You do not give a shit about him. If you did, you would live and preach God’s message of love and forgiveness as the positive gift that it is – not as a judgment you have no right to make on a “lifestyle” you don’t understand – especially since no one’s asked you, anyhow. > [@](#): > > You greatly misunderstand the motives of Christians who oppose this behaviour. There is no hatred or malice but concern and love though you can’t see it. It’s the love of a turned back; the love of a closed fist. That’s not love, and you are an offense to God when you name it so, and when you offer such “love” in His name. Is there no end to the damage you are willing to do with your false “witness”? Is it truly your desire to drive people away from God? Because it sure looks like that’s your goal. Just whose spiritual team are you playing for here, anyway? I rapidly grow to belief you embody the absolute worst of those who claim the title “Christian” and I affirmatively state that you do NOT speak for most Christians when you post your offensive, divisive, and dishonest opinions. “There is no hatred or malice but concern and love” – what utter, utter bullshit. Christianity is forbearing to judge; lest you be judged. Christianity is loving your neighbor as yourself. Christianity is NOT damning your fellow men to hell and then telling them it’s love that motivates you to do so. That is the grossest perversion of love, and we both know how God feels about perverts, don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Wildcatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@Wildcatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildcatz)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299/40 "2002-09-07T00:17:47Z")
> [@](#): > > My question for you is, what if we’re right? And what if you are wrong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-parting-gift-for-the-homophobes/127299.md?page=3)