# A Perfectly Reasonable Amount of Schadenfreude about Things Happening to Trump & His Enablers (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537 "2020-11-14T00:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1062 "2021-03-11T13:28:01Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m going to temporarily turn off the Schadenfreude spigot so we can all have a pity party tonight in honor of the saddest, most pathetic thing I’ve seen: > > [2021-03-10\_07-38-57 | JohnT\_15 | Flickr](https://flic.kr/p/2kJRpdz) > > Shall we all cry for our President? I’ll start: > > 😟🥺🥺🥺😥😥😥😥😢😢😢😢😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 That’s actually real and not a parody? It’s so hard to tell anymore. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1063 "2021-03-11T13:56:05Z")
He does have a bit of a point. If he hadn’t fucked up the response so badly, its entirely possible that COVID would have been contained, and we wouldn’t _need_ a vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1064 "2021-03-11T14:17:16Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > its entirely possible that COVID would have been contained I’m happy to slag on Trump as much as the next guy, but this claim is as unlikely as Trump being the reason it didn’t take 5 years to get a vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1065 "2021-03-11T14:32:03Z")
Hard to say how a different universe would have worked out, but he did dismantle a decent amount of the international infrastructure that we had in place to detect and contain pandemics. The rest of the world looked to us a as a leader in the control of infectious diseases, and blame China all you want, but _we_ certainly dropped the ball here too. And I don’t claim that it _would_ have been contained, I say that it is entirely possible that it would have been contained. I also have _no_ doubt that it would have been far less devastating with more competent leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1066 "2021-03-11T14:32:13Z")
Absolutely real. We’re living Poe’s Law every single day now ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1067 "2021-03-11T14:43:51Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I also have _no_ doubt that it would have been far less devastating with more competent leadership. Completely agree, I just don’t think the American President has enough juice to, by his own excellent choices, shut down a worldwide pandemic to the point where we don’t even need a vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1068 "2021-03-11T14:45:59Z")
Dunno. The Obama Administration handled the Ebola outbreak of 2014 much better, without needing to vaccinate everyone. > **[How Obama's Handling Of Ebola Compares With Trump's Handling Of Coronavirus](https://www.wgbh.org/news/politics/2020/03/13/how-obamas-handling-of-ebola-compares-with-trumps-handling-of-coronavirus)** > > President Donald Trump’s handling of the spread of COVID-19 has earned criticism from some who think the president has not acted swiftly enough to prevent the virus' spread. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1069 "2021-03-11T15:19:32Z")
Ebola is vastly less transmissible than Covid, so that’s not an entirely fair comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1070 "2021-03-11T15:36:44Z")
Still, the US had more COVID infections and deaths per capita than many other countries, so with a competent president, that might not have been the case. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1071 "2021-03-11T15:50:56Z")
It’s hard to disprove a negative. Would the Ebola outbreak been worse with inept handling? Could we have had a single fatality from it? Impossible to say. So, ok, not an “entirely” fair comparison, but still apt. If you want a better comparison, there’s always the 2009 swine flu pandemic. That response was hampered by the fact Congress hadn’t approved all of Obama’s cabinet picks yet, and we still had a pretty good response. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1072 "2021-03-11T15:53:35Z")
Oh hell yes, absolutely. Also more competent governors would have been useful. Honestly the mere act of making it a partisan issue was incredibly damaging. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1073 "2021-03-11T16:03:14Z")
Although, to be honest, I wonder how accurate the [per capita deaths](https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality) are for many countries. India, Pakistan, Nigeria and Venezuela are lower on the list than the US. So were they just lucky not to have it spread in their countries? Or was it a lack of testing, either before or after death? I mean, if a person living in a Mumbai slum dies, is a formal post mortem done? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1074 "2021-03-11T16:28:23Z")
The analysis for many countries will need to be done ex _post facto_, comparing the death rate before and during the pandemic. Looking for “excess deaths”. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1075 "2021-03-11T16:29:57Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It’s hard to disprove a negative. > > Would the Ebola outbreak been worse with inept handling? Could we have had a single fatality from it? > > Impossible to say. > > So, ok, not an “entirely” fair comparison, but still apt. > > If you want a better comparison, there’s always the 2009 swine flu pandemic. That response was hampered by the fact Congress hadn’t approved all of Obama’s cabinet picks yet, and we still had a pretty good response. Well, the obvious thing to do is to look at how the US fared in each of those relative to their global peers. Yeah, yeah, I know, American exceptionalism. Get over it. Ebola epidemic: There were a grand total of 7 cases in G20 nations, 4 of which were in the US. Of those 7, 5 were medical workers who contracted the disease in west Africa, and two (both in the US) were nurses providing care for the first category. There was never any community spread of the disease outside of west Africa, unless you count Nigeria and Mali as outside west Africa (but they only had 28 cases between them). The entire epidemic was almost exclusively in Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea. 2009 H1N1 pandemic: All numbers are estimates, because health agencies stopped testing to determine whether a given flu was H1N1 or some other variant after a while, but CDC estimates for the US were 60M cases (20% pop) and 12,500 deaths (4.1/100k). Global estimates are 10-20% infection rate and 284k deaths (4.2/100k). I don’t promise I did the math right. Seems like the US response was about average, which isn’t terribly surprising as the H1N1 pandemic was in the end pretty much a pretty bad regular flu season, which every nation on earth deals with on a regular basis. Conclusion: the US performed like a standard industrialized western nation in the 2 prior epidemics, but it’s important to note that Ebola is a very different disease that didn’t really spread outside of west Africa, and the 2009 flu pandemic didn’t end up being all that different from a regular flu season. To the extent that the US has done worse with regards to Covid relative to western Europe, Canada, Japan, etc, it seems plausible to blame much if not all of that on the current American political climate. But pointing at the lack of Ebola deaths doesn’t tell us anything, because there weren’t any Ebola deaths in Europe etc either. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1076 "2021-03-11T16:53:37Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > But pointing at the lack of Ebola deaths doesn’t tell us anything, because there weren’t any Ebola deaths in Europe etc either. The US response is not limited to what it did in the US alone. It sent people and resources out to combat Ebola where it was. Our international leadership has a lot to do with why it didn’t spread. I don’t know that we could have contained COVID, likely we could not have. But we didn’t even try. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1077 "2021-03-11T17:54:47Z")
When given a choice between “do something constructive” and “blame others”, a Republican will go for the blame game every time. We all know assholes like this; they take no responsibility, and all they do is shift blame. The question for me is: Do these assholes just naturally gravitate to the Republican party, or does the party take normal people and turn them into assholes like this? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1078 "2021-03-11T17:58:39Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > When given a choice between “do something constructive” and “blame others”, a Republican will go for the blame game every time. > > We all know assholes like this; they take no responsibility, and all they do is shift blame. The question for me is: Do these assholes just naturally gravitate to the Republican party, or does the party take normal people and turn them into assholes like this? - Yes. … ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2021, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1079 "2021-03-11T18:03:43Z")
One can speculate endlessly about the alternate universe where Republicans are setting their hair on fire about Hillary being re-elected despite the incompetence she demonstrated by allowing almost fifty thousand COVID deaths on her watch. 🤔 Moving from speculation to hard evidence, we now have before us an example of hard evidence – specifically “evidence of harm” relevant to a certain set of lawsuits: > **[Ohio County Rejects Dominion Voting Systems After Trump Supporters Balk](https://www.npr.org/2021/03/11/975935129/ohio-county-rejects-dominion-voting-systems-after-trump-supporters-balk)** > > Commissioners in Stark County voted to reject a recommended purchase of Dominion voting machines. Former President Trump falsely accused the machines of switching votes for him to President Biden. > The three person Board of Stark County Commissioners in Ohio rejected the purchase of more than 1,400 new Dominion voting machines. The county’s Board of Elections had recommended the purchase, but the three members voted to withhold the money for the purchase following pressure from supporters of former President Trump, who falsely accused the machines of manipulating vote tallies in President Biden’s favor… Not, by itself, evidence of the full alleged $1,300,000,000 worth of harm, but definite irrefutable evidence that real economic harm has been done by the current and future defendants, whose lawyers may be feeling the need for a _four_-martini lunch today… 😬 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1080 "2021-03-12T18:04:31Z")
Heheheheheh. > **[Trump's time in White House could end up benefiting New York prosecutors |...](https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/12/politics/trump-statute-of-limitations/index.html)** > > Former President Donald Trump's time in the White House helped shield him from investigations and some lawsuits but it might open him up to greater legal peril from New York prosecutors investigating his finances. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537/1081 "2021-03-13T02:03:52Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And I don’t claim that it _would_ have been contained, I say that it is entirely possible that it would have been contained. I also have _no_ doubt that it would have been far less devastating with more competent leadership. This Reddit commenter makes a VERY good case for why the COVID nightmare is totally Trumps fault, and along the way, why competent leadership would have made a vast difference. [Trumpedemic: The Coronavirus Death Toll Reached 500,000 Because Trump Sabotaged the Covid Response : politics (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/lsjc12/trumpedemic_the_coronavirus_death_toll_reached/gornyw6/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-1/925537.md?page=55)