# A Perfectly Reasonable Amount of Schadenfreude about Things Happening to Trump & His Enablers (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [May 19, 2023, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250 "2023-05-19T03:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 175
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3482 "2023-12-29T19:03:43Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > here is arguing that the 14th should not be enforced? A lot of people are arguing that it shouldn’t be enforced. Or that it be enforced only after it goes through a Federal court process which itself is not defined within the 14th amendment. Colorado declared Trump guilty of insurrection and, as under the 14th, ineligible to be on the ballot. And if they are the only State which does so, so be it. That’s how the law is written. ETA: Well, CO and ME. Forgot about ME. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3483 "2023-12-29T19:04:12Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > A lot of people are arguing that it shouldn’t be enforced. Well feel free to go and argue with those people. I’m pretty sure none of them are in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3484 "2023-12-29T19:05:35Z")
To your point, I thought this was the Colorado thread. I’ll withdraw for a more appropriate venue. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3485 "2023-12-29T19:05:56Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Or that it be enforced only after it goes through a Federal court process which itself is not defined within the 14th amendment. Again, I _know_ it’s not defined within 14A, and that’s the entire problem. **It’s a bug, not a feature.** Maybe a federal court process is the only answer, I don’t know. But we need something. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3486 "2023-12-29T19:06:18Z")
We _have_ something. The 10th amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3487 "2023-12-29T19:08:45Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > We _have_ something. The 10th amendment… So please answer my questions. Again, please explain what established processes ensure that (a) there is consistency across all states about who is eligible to be on the ballot for a presidential election, because that is not happening, and because anything else is clearly ridiculous; (b) what is the process under law to correct malicious misapplication of 14A, other than 2/3 majority of Congress which means “none”? If you cannot answer these questions under the current Constitution, then the Constitution is not fit for purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3488 "2023-12-29T19:12:59Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > It’s a bug, not a feature. > [@Riemann](#): > > please explain what established processes There are no processes. As you say, it’s a bug. But until you amend the constitution to debug it (a process just as cumbersome as what we’re dealing with here), you’re stuck trying to fix things using a buggy interface. So either fix it in as half-assed a manner as you can, or give up and burn the place down. At this point, I’m pushing for the former, but would be okay with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3489 "2023-12-29T19:13:58Z")
Once again. These bans are for primary ballots, not the general election. Folks can still scribble in their choice for the actual elections. (Holy shit Steve - talk about hanging chads, smudged squares; you’re inviting wholesale slaughter over signatures, cursive vs. block printing, full vs. partial names, missing middle initials…). ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3490 "2023-12-29T19:18:39Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > So either fix it in as half-assed a manner as you can, or give up and burn the place down. And I sincerely hope the SC swallow their pride over originalism / strict textualism and essentially invent a process. I would prefer a SC less favorable to Trump do this, but _somebody_ has to do it, and it’s not going to be Congress. I think people seriously underestimate how critical this juncture is. People are going to lose faith in democracy and the rule of law if this coming election has a bunch of states inconsistently omitting Trump or Biden from the ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3491 "2023-12-29T19:31:58Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > Once again. These bans are for primary ballots, not the general election. Folks can still scribble in their choice for the actual elections. There is no “once again” about it. We all know the way it works. You are confusing “is” with “ought”. To suggest that this is a sensible way for a national election to proceed in a functioning democracy is preposterous. I’ll repeat, if Trump (for good reason) and Biden (for malicious reasons) are excluded for ballots inconsistently in a random hodgepodge of states, this democracy is on the verge of failure. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3492 "2023-12-29T19:50:25Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@Procrustus](#): > > > > Using the 14th amendment against Obama (birth certificate) or Biden (?) would not survive that process. > > What if it did in 15 states? Any state in which it would survive is going to vote deep flaming red anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3493 "2023-12-29T19:53:31Z")
Not necessarily. There are states that are massively gerrymandered in in favor of Republicans. In any event, that’s not an argument that it’s an acceptable way to run a democracy. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3494 "2023-12-29T19:55:12Z")
Agreed that it’s not good. Agreed that the ship of state is veering into uncharted waters with reefs and ridges lurking on all sides. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3495 "2023-12-29T19:55:20Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > To suggest that this is a sensible way for a national election to proceed in a functioning democracy is preposterous. Since our national election process is essentially handled individually by the states and the two parties, up to the point of nomination, then part of the fix would have to be to change that. National primaries, or individual state primaries, or regional primaries, some other process, whatever seems to work, but governed by federal law. This would require, would it not, a constitutional amendment, as @Horatius suggested upthread? Such an amendment would never be passed, it couldn’t even get through congress. And what do we do in the meantime, with this issue that needs to be resolved yesterday? All we can do at present is to let the issue play out in the courts. > [@JohnT](#): > > You want to argue that the Constitution is a poorly-written piece of shit, I’ll have to be on your side in this debate. I wouldn’t. It’s badly flawed in some aspects, certainly, and certainly doesn’t deserve the worship as the received word (of a group of people 250 years ago) that it gets. Getting something better at this point is going to be an extremely painful, probably violent, process. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3496 "2023-12-29T20:00:17Z")
We have varying state laws which dictate that a person cannot be on the ballot because they didn’t receive enough signatures on a petition and the Republic, somehow, survives this continued onslaught. In Alabama, one needs 500 signatures (Dem or Rep). In neighboring Florida, one needs 56,000 if they are a Republican, none at all for Democrats. In Georgia, don’t even bother as they don’t have a petition-for-ballot-access process at all for either party. > **[Ballot access for presidential candidates](https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_presidential_candidates)** > > Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3497 "2023-12-29T20:02:37Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > And I sincerely hope the SC swallow their pride over originalism / strict textualism and essentially invent a process. I would prefer a SC less favorable to Trump do this, but _somebody_ has to do it, and it’s not going to be Congress. I agree with this 100%. SCOTUS must act to resolve this for all states. We stand at the brink. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3498 "2023-12-29T20:04:36Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > We have varying state laws which dictate that a person cannot be on the ballot because they didn’t receive enough signatures on a petition and the Republic, somehow, survives this continued onslaught. So your argument is that out tolerance for inconsequential differences in state laws implies that highly consequential differences must be just fine too? I find that unconvincing. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3499 "2023-12-29T20:08:43Z")
Not too sure why this is inconsequential, given that there are laws which allow Republicans to gain access to the ballot and Democrats no access (other than through the party nomination process). Seems pretty consequential to me! How many FL Democrats have been blocked from the ballot simply because FL law doesn’t allow Democrats access to the ballots, other than through the official party processes? What I don’t buy is an argument which relies on the assumption that one person, Donald Trump, is so special that we must contort ourselves to ignore the Constitution and deny not just the 14th amendment, but also the 10th amendment. As well as historical precedent, _and_ common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3500 "2023-12-29T20:15:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > What I don’t buy is an argument which relies on the assumption that one person, Donald Trump, is so special that we must contort ourselves to ignore the Constitution and deny not just the 14th amendment, but also the 10th amendment. As well as historical precedent, _and_ common sense. You can keep repeating the straw man that this is about whether 14A should apply to Trump. It’s not, it’s about process, and about running a functional democracy controlled by the rule of law. You mention 10A again but you still haven’t answered the questions that I’ve twice asked you. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2023, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/3501 "2023-12-29T21:33:11Z")
Exactly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250.md?page=174) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250.md?page=176)