# A Perfectly Reasonable Amount of Schadenfreude about Things Happening to Trump & His Enablers (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [May 19, 2023, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250 "2023-05-19T03:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 494
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9862 "2025-01-11T16:00:22Z")
[Ladysmith](https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/j-frame-163808) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9863 "2025-01-11T22:03:07Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Where did you get the idea that sentencing somehow makes someone legally a felon, and you aren’t until then? Every reputable source. Here’s the New York Times: > [@](#): > > Once he is sentenced for the 34-count conviction, he will formally become a felon. > **[Trump Seeks to Halt His Criminal Sentencing in New York](https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/06/nyregion/trump-trial-sentencing-new-york.html)** > > A Manhattan judge has already indicated that he will spare Donald J. Trump from jail time, but the president-elect is seeking to avoid the symbolic blow of the criminal proceeding. Here’s [justice.gov](http://justice.gov): > [@](#): > > In United States practice, conviction means a finding of guilt (i.e., a jury verdict or finding of fact by the judge) **and imposition of sentence**. If the defendant fled after the verdict _but before sentencing, he or she has not been convicted_ > **[609. Evidence Of Conviction](https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-609-evidence-conviction)** > > This is archived content from the U.S. Department of Justice website. The information here may be outdated and links may no longer function. Please contact webmaster@usdoj.gov if you have any questions about the archive site. (My bolding and italics.) All the sources you cite are giving a general definition of “felon,” not a formal or legal definition. That makes them useless in this context. General-definition sources are prone to saying things like “a felon is someone who has committed a felony.” On the surface that might imply that merely doing a crime at felony level makes a person a felon. But in reality “committed” is doing the work of “is indicted for, tried, convicted, and sentenced.” In other words, colloquial usage is not helpful when discussing something like the value of Merchan’s choices in this matter. Before January 10 it was accurate to say that a jury had found Donald Trump guilty of felonies. And it has been colloquial to call him “a felon,” as supported by the general-definition sources you cite in your post. But the point is that Merchan **was accomplishing something important and useful** by sentencing Trump (even though he made that sentence ‘unconditional discharge’ to make it harder for the conviction to be overturned by an appeals court or SCOTUS). He made Trump not just someone who had been convicted of felonies, but “a felon”–someone tried, convicted, and sentenced. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9864 "2025-01-11T22:09:49Z")
AI says this Yes, if you are found guilty of a felony charge, you are considered a felon even if you haven’t been sentenced yet; a “conviction” means you have been found guilty in court, which is the defining factor for being labeled a felon. I’m not claiming this is a better source, just that it makes more sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9865 "2025-01-11T22:12:22Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > I’m not claiming this is a better source, just that it makes more sense to me. Well, usage does matter, and certainly ‘_being found guilty makes you a felon_’ is the most common usage. My point was about the fact that _legally_, Merchan’s actions yesterday did make a difference to Trump’s status. Legally, Trump’s status was different on January 9 to what it is on January 11. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9866 "2025-01-11T22:36:04Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > Yes, if you are found guilty of a felony charge, you are considered a felon even if you haven’t been sentenced yet; a “conviction” means you have been found guilty in court, which is the defining factor for being labeled a felon. This is how most legal folks will look at it. However, I think the confusion comes in because until sentence is pronounced, the conviction can still be at risk and overturned; e.g., juror misconduct is discovered and the verdict is set aside for a retrial. Sentencing finalizes the verdict, because it is no longer vulnerable to being set aside. But the felon status is established when a verdict is rendered – absent a situation as I described. Those situations are rare and usually caught almost immediately after trial. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9867 "2025-01-11T23:02:24Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > This is how most legal folks will look at it. However, I think the confusion comes in because until sentence is pronounced, the conviction can still be at risk and overturned; e.g., juror misconduct is discovered and the verdict is set aside for a retrial. That can be true even after sentencing. The conviction and sentence in a trial in which gross misconduct has been shown to occur (jury or witness tampering, serious judicial misconduct, fraudulent evidence) can be set aside at the discretion of the judge called to oversee adjudication without going to appeal. This doesn’t always happen even when it obviously should but it is a possibility. The trial is not concluded until the sentencing phase, but once a conviction is rendered the defendant is technically a felon by definition, that is to say they have been found guilty of a felony crime. How they are treated (whether bail is revoked and they are remanded to custody, other rights restricted) will depend on jurisdictional statute and procedural rules but Donald Trump was correctly referred to as a felon they day the jury came back with a verdict of “guilty” on all 34 counts of the indictment. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2025, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9868 "2025-01-11T23:06:58Z")
All true. I’ve participated in cases where the judge declared a mistrial and set the case for retrial as soon as possible. I’ve also participated in cases that were overturned on appeal and remanded for retrial even after sentencing is pronounced, some 2+ years later. But it is extremely rare that these things happen. Another thing that can happen is if new evidence comes to light and an appeals court grants a motion for new trial. I never participated in any case where this happened, though. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2025, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9869 "2025-01-12T01:20:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Climate change denier cries on TV over losing his house to the apocalyptic fires that are happening for no reason. Update: Turns out Woods was full of shit and his house is fine because apparently God decided his home was more important than everyone else’s. > **['A miracle.' James Woods posts on X that his house survived Los Angeles...](https://apnews.com/article/james-woods-wildfires-miracle-house-survived-cd1f4f655fe2d2c7bca2e9693ee0780d)** > > Actor James Woods says his house in Pacific Palisades has survived the Los Angeles wildfires that had devastated much of his neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2025, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9870 "2025-01-12T03:53:55Z")
Oh thank goodness; I was kicking off the sheets, worrying. I wonder if his neighbors dislike him as much as I do. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2025, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9871 "2025-01-12T04:03:38Z")
Maybe he used his Hades powers to divert the blaze. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2025, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9872 "2025-01-12T21:13:07Z")
Haha, funny. Ironic that Woods avoids being burned down. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2025, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9873 "2025-01-12T21:30:48Z")
Can’t stop laughing at this - when will it come to a head? _Who will prevail?_ > **[Bannon Sets MAGA Expiration Date for ‘Evil’ Elon Musk](https://ca.news.yahoo.com/bannon-sets-maga-expiration-date-141654431.html)** > > “Because he put money in, I was prepared to tolerate it. I’m not prepared to tolerate it anymore,” Bannon said of his nemesis. > [@](#): > > “I will get [Elon Musk](https://www.thedailybeast.com/keyword/elon-musk/) kicked out by the time he’s inaugurated,” Bannon [told](https://www.corriere.it/esteri/25_gennaio_08/steve-bannon-elon-musk-intervista-aca1876b-4035-4ce3-b978-5e5f4b6d9xlk.shtml) Italian newspaper _Corriere della Sera. "_ He won’t have a blue pass with full access to the White House. He’ll be like everyone else.” Good on ya, Steve! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2025, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9874 "2025-01-12T22:13:02Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Good on ya, Steve! 😆 [Steve Bannon](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiyZ92_JZxA&t=248s) is way more impressed with his own suction than anyone else is. As much as I’d like to see both of these guys disappear permanently down a sinkhole, I’d put money on Elon for this contest. When Musk gets trebuchet’d from the Trump circle it is because he is stealing too much attention from Trump. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2025, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9875 "2025-01-12T22:28:35Z")
My thought as well: if/when Elon hits the bricks, it will be because the Orange Peril can’t stand having anyone around with an ego as overinflated as his own. The EgoDome: two go in, only one comes out. (The situation kind of reminds me of a comment I made about WWII — that it was a good thing MacArthur was in the Pacific, since if he’d been in Europe with Montgomery and Patton the concentration of ego would have created a black hole which would have swallowed the planet.) ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2025, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9876 "2025-01-12T23:39:49Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > When Musk gets trebuchet’d from the Trump circle it is because he is stealing too much attention from Trump. Or just plain stealing too much from Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2025, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9877 "2025-01-12T23:52:27Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > Or just plain stealing too much from Trump. If there is any thieving it would likely be the other way. Trump’s actual wealth has certainly increased as his cult has bought so much licensed crap and he’s been able to grift from people who want access and even from government agencies himself, but he’s still ’just’ a single digit billionaire. Musk has made more out of boosting Trump and telling his investors that his unique access will net SpaceX and Tesla exclusive contracts (hence, why Jeff Bezos is down on his knees, mouth wide open to receive Trump) than Donald Trump will ever hope to realize. That is why Musk is content to let Trump grift off of him like a remora because it is fractions of a penny on the dollar for what that Musk can get from that relationship. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9878 "2025-01-13T01:10:06Z")
_The Daily Show_’s Josh Johnson on Elon Musk: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/q8NP95L0aAg/maxresdefault.jpg "Why They’re Turning On Elon") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8NP95L0aAg&t=642s) “This is how you know the path to riches is a dead end…” “ Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9879 "2025-01-13T02:08:00Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > If there is any thieving it would likely be the other way. I was thinking in a more general sense. There’s no honor among thieves, and any grift going to Elmo, is not going to Trump. Trump will likely interpret that as stealing from him. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9880 "2025-01-13T03:08:37Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > (The situation kind of reminds me of a comment I made about WWII — that it was a good thing MacArthur was in the Pacific, since if he’d been in Europe with Montgomery and Patton the concentration of ego would have created a black hole which would have swallowed the planet.) Patton and MacArthur did meet on a battlefield in the First World War. Later, they didn’t even remember what they said, just that they weren’t going to be the first to duck from a German barrage (neither did). > **[MacArthur and Patton: The St. Mihiel Offensive - The Army Historical Foundation](https://armyhistory.org/macarthur-and-patton-the-st-mihiel-offensive/)** > > This article has been adapted from a paper presented by Kevin Hymel,  for the 1997 Annual Meeting of the Society of Military History. On the afternoon of September 12, 1918, \[…\] ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2025, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250/9881 "2025-01-13T20:13:37Z")
> **[Zelenskyy says Ukraine will send firefighters to California after Trump Jr. jab](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2025/01/13/california-fires-zelensky-ukraine-trump-jr/77665857007/)** > > Donald Trump Jr. jabbed the Los Angeles County Fire Department for sending spare equipment to Ukraine in 2022. > [@](#): > > [Volodymyr Zelenskyy](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/12/16/trump-ukraine-zelenskyy-inauguration-invite/77027919007/) said he may send Ukrainian firefighters to help battle [the blazes raging in California](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/01/13/los-angeles-fires-california-wildfire-live-updates-monday/77659385007/) after Donald Trump Jr. dragged the [Los Angeles County Fire Department](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/01/13/santa-ana-winds-forecast-los-angeles-wildfires-california/77665392007/) for donating some supplies to Ukraine’s defense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250.md?page=493) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-perfectly-reasonable-amount-of-schadenfreude-about-things-happening-to-trump-his-enablers-part-2/984250.md?page=495)