# A persuadable vote against Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [October 29, 2024, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408 "2024-10-29T15:39:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/1 "2024-10-29T15:39:54Z")
One of my more idiotic neighbors is a 70ish Jewish daughter of Holocaust survivors, not very religious or well-informed, who is considering voting for Trump because—"Israel!” I don’t think hearing from me, who isn’t very well informed either on this subject, would persuade her (because I’ve made up my mind long ago about Trump and consider Israel one of a hundred positions he’s taken that are blindingly simple-minded and counterproductive), but perhaps there’s an effective spokesperson from an Israeli in support of Harris that I could show to her? Can you link me to a patriotic but anti-Netanyahu Israeli who has spoken out for Harris, or against Trump? There’s a chance, a small chance, you may be helping turn a vote for Trump into a vote against him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/2 "2024-10-29T15:45:10Z")
She supports a twice-impeached convict who tried to violently overthrow the government and who would throw political opponents in jail (or worse) and is proud of abusing women. If she can shrug all that off, you _cannot_ reach her. ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/3 "2024-10-29T15:47:28Z")
Well, she says she’s not sure who she’s voting for, so she’s definitely reachable. I think she favors Trump because he’s more outspoken on how great he’ll be for Israel, not that she understands what’s going on over there, or in Washington either. All she knows is that he likes to boast about his support for Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/4 "2024-10-29T15:49:03Z")
How sure are you that she isn’t pretending to be a fence-sitter just to stop you? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/5 "2024-10-29T15:50:56Z")
What an Israeli journalist said to a group i was in is (paraphrased): I have the privilege of living in a country that has universal healthcare, and where women have the right to control their bodies, so i can’t blame you if you vote for reasons other than “what’s best for Israel”. Harris and the Democrats have policies that are bad for Israel (and Ukraine). But i can’t say that Trump is any better. The Democrats have a fairly consistent international policy. The Republicans are all over the board. They range from hawks to isolationists. If i knew who Trump would select as secretary of state, i might be able to say whether i think trump would be good or bad for Israel. But i don’t. It could be anyone, and their policies could be anything from great to horrendous. ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/6 "2024-10-29T15:52:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > just to stop you From what would she be stopping me? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/7 "2024-10-29T15:53:27Z")
Maybe you could harvest as many anti-Jew or anti-Israel comments that you possibly can find, made by Trump. That being said…it **is** definitely true to some extent that Trump is going to be the more blatant pro-Israel candidate, if we define pro-Israel as turning a blind eye to anything bad Israel does. Maybe your best chance is to show her that even if he is more pro-Israel, his 900 other bad positions outweigh it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/8 "2024-10-29T15:55:10Z")
Being angry at her for actually telling the truth about her supporting Trump. Lying about fence-sitting is SOP now. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/9 "2024-10-29T15:56:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Maybe you could harvest as many anti-Jew or anti-Israel comments that you possibly can find, made by Trump. Perhaps some of the antisemitic things said by the hired entertainer at his recent rally in nyc? (I haven’t followed that story, but i was told it was pretty blatant and scary for Jews.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/10 "2024-10-29T15:57:44Z")
With what Trump has openly said and done, this incident won’t make any difference at all. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/11 "2024-10-29T15:58:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Being angry at her for actually telling the truth about her supporting Trump. Do you think she really cares enough about this to lie? This is a 70 year old neighbor whom the OP already thinks is “idiotic”. Not some close friend or family member. ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/12 "2024-10-29T15:58:52Z")
I agree, but at this point I’m desperate for anything I can do that will help Harris. Otherwise, I’m just in a dither for another week. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/13 "2024-10-29T16:00:13Z")
She will vote for Trump, so go elsewhere because she is wasting your time…and perhaps on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/14 "2024-10-29T16:00:17Z")
It might to this person. If they were my friend, i would engage. Actually, what state do they live in? If they live in Vermont or North Dakota, i wouldn’t bother. But i would if they live in a swing state. ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/15 "2024-10-29T16:04:33Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > what state do they live in? Solid Blue. Of no practical import, really. But I am curious if anyone has come across an outspoken anti-Netanyahu Israeli who has opined on the U.S. presidential race. Sending her that link would accomplish much more than I could possibly do. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/16 "2024-10-29T16:15:15Z")
I’m sorry, but lying to win is the New Republican “normal” and there are no age restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/17 "2024-10-29T16:32:14Z")
Ask your neighbor what she thinks about Democrats, and see if sending her information from the opposing side would be listened to, or tossed. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/18 "2024-10-29T17:07:54Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Being angry at her for actually telling the truth about her supporting Trump. > > Do you think she really cares enough about this to lie? This is a 70 year old neighbor whom the OP already thinks is “idiotic”. Not some close friend or family member. The OP is in a better place to judge the neighbor than the rest of us, but they’re posting here because they can’t come up with a credible way to persuade the ignorance. Which is admirable, getting out the vote is good, or getting the Trump voters to NOT bother is also a help. But, reading the OP, I suspect @GailForce also, deep down, doesn’t think it a _likely_ scenario. Thus all the description repeated above about the quality of the voter’s mental state and ignorance. To @Czarcasm’s point, I am largely in agreement. A lot of people defer debates they don’t want to entertain by saying “they’re undecided” when they actually are. It’s a polite way to avoid conflict, and the more you push them, the more you find out that they’ve actually quite firmly made up their minds. I find this common, perhaps _especially_ among older women who don’t want to seen as creating conflict or being “in your face”. Since it’s a solid blue state by reporting, I wouldn’t risk the conflict, but if it was swing, I might gently probe for what she considers good reporting on what’s best for Israel, or better yet, what’s best for Jewish Americans, and see if there’s any supporting information _there_ to share. Of course, if it’s Fox News (which I suspect) then, yeah, her demurral sounds ever more the polite fiction. ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/19 "2024-10-30T16:21:14Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > @GailForce also, deep down, doesn’t think it a _likely_ scenario. Not likely, but I am curious if there’s a link to anything written by an Israeli who opposes Netanyahu and Trump regarding Gaza and related issues. It seems to me there must be many such, since there is so much opposition to Netanyahu within Israel itself, and so much attention paid there to U.S. politics. Are there any Israeli posters here who regularly are exposed to such Israeli thinkers? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408/20 "2024-10-30T16:34:24Z")
[Haaretz.com](http://Haaretz.com) is your go-to for left-of-center Israeli opinion pieces. A few seconds of googling found [this piece on Trump’s general despicability.](https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2024-10-29/ty-article/.premium/trumps-revolting-festival-of-racism-hatred-ignorance-and-venom-at-madison-square-garden/00000192-d7ef-df2b-a5db-d7ffd6900000). [Here](https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-10-29/ty-article-opinion/.premium/netanyahu-thinks-a-trump-win-would-give-him-free-rein-but-hes-in-for-a-disappointment/00000192-d418-df2b-a5db-d43c26e70000) is a more specific look at how a Trump Presidency would affect Israel, concluding: > A man who disparages NATO, likes Vladimir Putin, pooh-poohs climate change and promises to impose autocratic policies at home, will do harm to every Israeli, even if he sounds as if he is friendly to Israel and even remembers to note how beautiful the prime minister’s wife is. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-persuadable-vote-against-trump/1009408.md?page=2)