# A philosophical thought experiment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982 "2018-09-07T23:35:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/21 "2018-09-10T03:07:19Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’d flip the question around, and I’m actually curious about the answer to this: > > Imagine I could poll a significant chunk of humanity, and ask them the question. “Suppose, before life started on this planet, an alien had had the opportunity to press a button to prevent life from ever developing. You never would have existed. Based on your own experience, do you wish the alien had pressed the button?” > > If a significant majority of humanity wishes the no-life button had been pressed, I won’t cause life. But if a significant majority is happy that life occurred, I’ll assume that a similar planet would have a similar result. > > Has any such polling ever actually been done? Obviously not with the “alien” question, but asking folks whether they’re on balance glad that they were born? [This one](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/02/what-makes-young-people-happy-and-what-do-they-worry-about/://) is at least close. > [@](#): > > Most young people around the world are happy. > > Nearly seven out of ten (68%) young people across the world said that they were happy with their lives And more in low to middle income countries than in prosperous ones. [Global scores](https://ourworldindata.org/happiness-and-life-satisfaction)for all age groups vary by country and time period but still lean to the more satisfied than unsatisfied with life. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/22 "2018-09-10T16:02:38Z")
I’d push it. That’s what God did, and he blames all the fuck-ups on us. He doesn’t hold Himself accountable, so why should I? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/23 "2018-09-10T16:23:31Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > [This one](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/02/what-makes-young-people-happy-and-what-do-they-worry-about/://) is at least close. And more in low to middle income countries than in prosperous ones. > > [Global scores](https://ourworldindata.org/happiness-and-life-satisfaction)for all age groups vary by country and time period but still lean to the more satisfied than unsatisfied with life. Thanks. That’s as close as you can get to an answer to the hypothetical question, “Would people want to be born if they could have a choice in the matter?” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/24 "2018-09-10T16:33:56Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > There’s an uninhabited planet, and you have a button that when pushed, will start a very similar process of life on that planet as the one on this planet; so you’ll get the chocolate ice cream, you get the sex, you get the relationships, you get the beautiful sunsets, you get the fun movies, you get the nice Thanksgiving family dinners, you get the cool 80s music- but you also have to claim accountability for the trillions of sentient organisms suffering. Every war, every genocide, every suicide, every atrocity, every famine, every plague, every harm- all that is on you. Do you press the button, or leave it the way out is? No, I wouldn’t push it, because actively doing something that causes suffering is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/25 "2018-09-10T16:44:31Z")
Other than degree, is this fundamentally a different question than “do you think it’s moral to have a child”? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/26 "2018-09-10T16:46:07Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > No, I wouldn’t push it, because actively doing something that causes suffering is wrong. So how are you managing without breathing or eating? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/27 "2018-09-10T16:47:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So how are you managing without breathing or eating? editing: because maybe I read that wrong. Perhaps I don’t understand your question. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/28 "2018-09-10T16:50:01Z")
I’d opt to let nature take its course on that planet. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/29 "2018-09-10T17:00:26Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Other than degree, is this fundamentally a different question than “do you think it’s moral to have a child”? [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859961](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859961) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=854664](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=854664) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=855296](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=855296) [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=835707](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=835707) That’s probably a third of the OP’s threads, so this is at least some welcome variety. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/30 "2018-09-10T18:19:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > editing: because maybe I read that wrong. > > Perhaps I don’t understand your question. Just by being in an ecosystem and interacting with it, you are causing immense amount of suffering to other life forms. Every time you breathe, you kill hundreds of millions of microbes, and naturally whatever you eat had to die first. Suffering is not dependent on sentience. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/31 "2018-09-10T18:37:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Just by being in an ecosystem and interacting with it, you are causing immense amount of suffering to other life forms. Every time you breathe, you kill hundreds of millions of microbes, and naturally whatever you eat had to die first. Suffering is not dependent on sentience. Can you show that those microbes are suffering? I don’t think they are. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/32 "2018-09-10T20:12:49Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Suffering is not dependent on sentience. This seems to be a contradiction in terms. Suffering is a subjective experience, and if an entity is not sentient then it can have no subjective experience. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/33 "2018-09-10T20:29:56Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > This seems to be a contradiction in terms. Suffering is a subjective experience, and if an entity is not sentient then it can have no subjective experience. Only if you define “suffering” as purely psychological, and I’m not sure why you would. Ever seen an animal in pain? You want to suggest it’s not suffering? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/34 "2018-09-10T20:31:03Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Can you show that those microbes are suffering? I don’t think they are. So it’s morally acceptable to cause death if one does so painlessly? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/35 "2018-09-10T21:05:29Z")
I just like pushing buttons. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/36 "2018-09-10T21:09:05Z")
Press it. If pressing it twice starts the life-with-all-its-misery-and-happiness process twice on two uninhabited planets, I press the button twice. If it would work 10,000 times, I’d press it 10,000 times. Virtually everyone I know is quite happy to exist, even with the occasional hardships and setbacks they suffer. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/37 "2018-09-10T21:20:17Z")
Key point: Is it a jolly candy-like button? ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/38 "2018-09-10T22:06:55Z")
There’s a button that when pushed, will erase all of history from 2 million years ago to now: so you’ll lose the wars, the genocides, the suicides, the atrocities, the famines, the plagues, all harm. But you also have to claim accountability for the trillions of sentient organisms ceasing to have existed. all that is on you. You lose the chocolate ice cream, you lose the sex, you lose the relationships, you lose the beautiful sunsets, you lose the fun movies, you lose the nice Thanksgiving family dinners, you lose the cool 80s music. You’d effectively be sparing them suffering by committing chronological genocide. Does Marcus Flavius press the button, or leave it the way out is? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/39 "2018-09-10T22:28:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Only if you define “suffering” as purely psychological, and I’m not sure why you would. Ever seen an animal in pain? You want to suggest it’s not suffering? I have seen animals suffering and I consider them to be sentient. (“Pain” is not necessarily the same thing as “suffering.”) I do not consider a bacterium to be sentient. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982/40 "2018-09-10T22:47:47Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I have seen animals suffering and I consider them to be sentient. (“Pain” is not necessarily the same thing as “suffering.”) I can’t figure out your point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-philosophical-thought-experiment/820982.md?page=3)