A philosophical thought experiment

[DSeid]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

I’d flip the question around, and I’m actually curious about the answer to this:

Imagine I could poll a significant chunk of humanity, and ask them the question. “Suppose, before life started on this planet, an alien had had the opportunity to press a button to prevent life from ever developing. You never would have existed. Based on your own experience, do you wish the alien had pressed the button?”

If a significant majority of humanity wishes the no-life button had been pressed, I won’t cause life. But if a significant majority is happy that life occurred, I’ll assume that a similar planet would have a similar result.

Has any such polling ever actually been done? Obviously not with the “alien” question, but asking folks whether they’re on balance glad that they were born?

This one is at least close.

Most young people around the world are happy.

Nearly seven out of ten (68%) young people across the world said that they were happy with their lives

And more in low to middle income countries than in prosperous ones.

Global scoresfor all age groups vary by country and time period but still lean to the more satisfied than unsatisfied with life.

[CookingWithGas]

I’d push it. That’s what God did, and he blames all the fuck-ups on us. He doesn’t hold Himself accountable, so why should I?

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@DSeid

This one is at least close. And more in low to middle income countries than in prosperous ones.

Global scoresfor all age groups vary by country and time period but still lean to the more satisfied than unsatisfied with life.

Thanks. That’s as close as you can get to an answer to the hypothetical question, “Would people want to be born if they could have a choice in the matter?”

[Slash1972]

@Marcus_Flavius

There’s an uninhabited planet, and you have a button that when pushed, will start a very similar process of life on that planet as the one on this planet; so you’ll get the chocolate ice cream, you get the sex, you get the relationships, you get the beautiful sunsets, you get the fun movies, you get the nice Thanksgiving family dinners, you get the cool 80s music- but you also have to claim accountability for the trillions of sentient organisms suffering. Every war, every genocide, every suicide, every atrocity, every famine, every plague, every harm- all that is on you. Do you press the button, or leave it the way out is?

No, I wouldn’t push it, because actively doing something that causes suffering is wrong.

[Eonwe]

Other than degree, is this fundamentally a different question than “do you think it’s moral to have a child”?

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Slash1972

No, I wouldn’t push it, because actively doing something that causes suffering is wrong.

So how are you managing without breathing or eating?

[Slash1972]

@Bryan_Ekers

So how are you managing without breathing or eating?

editing: because maybe I read that wrong.

Perhaps I don’t understand your question.

[Jasmine]

I’d opt to let nature take its course on that planet.

[Telemark]

@Eonwe

Other than degree, is this fundamentally a different question than “do you think it’s moral to have a child”?

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859961
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=854664
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=855296
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=835707

That’s probably a third of the OP’s threads, so this is at least some welcome variety.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Slash1972

editing: because maybe I read that wrong.

Perhaps I don’t understand your question.

Just by being in an ecosystem and interacting with it, you are causing immense amount of suffering to other life forms. Every time you breathe, you kill hundreds of millions of microbes, and naturally whatever you eat had to die first. Suffering is not dependent on sentience.

[Slash1972]

@Bryan_Ekers

Just by being in an ecosystem and interacting with it, you are causing immense amount of suffering to other life forms. Every time you breathe, you kill hundreds of millions of microbes, and naturally whatever you eat had to die first. Suffering is not dependent on sentience.

Can you show that those microbes are suffering? I don’t think they are.

[CookingWithGas]

@Bryan_Ekers

Suffering is not dependent on sentience.

This seems to be a contradiction in terms. Suffering is a subjective experience, and if an entity is not sentient then it can have no subjective experience.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@CookingWithGas

This seems to be a contradiction in terms. Suffering is a subjective experience, and if an entity is not sentient then it can have no subjective experience.

Only if you define “suffering” as purely psychological, and I’m not sure why you would. Ever seen an animal in pain? You want to suggest it’s not suffering?

[Bryan_Ekers]

@Slash1972

Can you show that those microbes are suffering? I don’t think they are.

So it’s morally acceptable to cause death if one does so painlessly?

[Gatopescado]

I just like pushing buttons.

[HurricaneDitka]

Press it. If pressing it twice starts the life-with-all-its-misery-and-happiness process twice on two uninhabited planets, I press the button twice. If it would work 10,000 times, I’d press it 10,000 times.

Virtually everyone I know is quite happy to exist, even with the occasional hardships and setbacks they suffer.

[Scumpup]

Key point: Is it a jolly candy-like button?

[Malden_Capell]

There’s a button that when pushed, will erase all of history from 2 million years ago to now: so you’ll lose the wars, the genocides, the suicides, the atrocities, the famines, the plagues, all harm. But you also have to claim accountability for the trillions of sentient organisms ceasing to have existed. all that is on you. You lose the chocolate ice cream, you lose the sex, you lose the relationships, you lose the beautiful sunsets, you lose the fun movies, you lose the nice Thanksgiving family dinners, you lose the cool 80s music. You’d effectively be sparing them suffering by committing chronological genocide. Does Marcus Flavius press the button, or leave it the way out is?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CookingWithGas]

@Bryan_Ekers

Only if you define “suffering” as purely psychological, and I’m not sure why you would. Ever seen an animal in pain? You want to suggest it’s not suffering?

I have seen animals suffering and I consider them to be sentient. (“Pain” is not necessarily the same thing as “suffering.”) I do not consider a bacterium to be sentient.

[Bryan_Ekers]

@CookingWithGas

I have seen animals suffering and I consider them to be sentient. (“Pain” is not necessarily the same thing as “suffering.”)

I can’t figure out your point.