# a pill better than XTC **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 1, 2000, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541 "2000-12-01T06:31:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/81 "2000-12-06T11:22:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*and one more for you > > [http://www.public.health.wa.gov.au/old/hp6347.htm](http://www.public.health.wa.gov.au/old/hp6347.htm) > > Are they not convincing you because they are Governmental releases and “The Man wants to stop the kids having fun”? > \*\* [off topic] What drug did you take to become arrogant and hostile? Alchohol killed my grandfather. As for cites check the national medical examiner for cases of alchohol related death and injury compared to every single other drug out there. Does that make E or K or XYZ vitamin D? No, but it’s the choice of the individual. Your pal doped and lost, my grandfather drank himself to death. Big frig, I miss him but it does not give me the right to moralize all over other people or come off like a parent. I have relatives (see plural) who have died in automotive accidents . I drive myself, a lot more than I smoke, drink, drop acid, or do anything else. Do you drive? Do you allow yourself to be driven? Life is a risk if you choose to live it. You can do things to improve your odds of survival but you are **never** 100% safe from incident. Look at Christopher Reeves, married, non-drinker or drug user, didn’t even smoke, into excercise and now he’s pretty much a talking celery. It’s one thing to be off topic, it’s quite another to be intentionally abraisive while being off topic. And advising people to chove things in various places isn’t even creative enough to imply wit. [/off topic] ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/82 "2000-12-06T12:40:05Z")
Zen, while I realise that I may have come across as being arrogant, I just wanted to let romanticide know that it is a dangerous drug (which I am sure that he knew). I hate the drug. I realise that people are going to take it. I can’t stop them if they want to take that risk. Zen, I posted that link because Romanticide didn’t think that what I had posted before was very convincing. I read that as because It came from a government source, It wasn’t a balanced viewpoint. hence my response. I never assume that anything I do is 100% safe. I try to be aware of the risk in most things I do. I do become abrasive when it comes to this topic. I apologise for that. and Zen, I’m sure you realise that what I posted was considerably tamed down and devoid of wit than I wanted. I’m usually not one to hold back, but I usually try to stick to the rules of the forum Cheers, John ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/83 "2000-12-06T21:22:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\* > **Oldscratch** , goddammit, just a few posts back I popped in to remind everyone to mind their manners, didn’t I? And now I find you calling people derogatory names. **Do not do it again.** This thread is more than heated enough without that kind of behavior. M’kay? Do we understand each other?_\* ok. won’t do it again…I was not aware this was a problem as I’ve called him that before in MPSIMS and no one commented. And it is a synonym of his user name. But if you say no for future callings, I will do so. To me it didn’t seem a problem as guano is bird shit. It’d be like a poster refering to me as Beelzebub or some such. > [@](#): > > _Posted by G_@#$Lad\* > \*\*Because they’re addressing chemical imbalances in controlled doses for the benefit of the patient’s health - they aren’t playing around with unmeasured substances for the sake of a risky buzz. \*\* Well here you’re making several assumptions. What’s wrong with using illegal drugs in controlled doses for the mental or physical health benefits of the user? ---
**Author:** ![Silo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@Silo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/84 "2000-12-06T22:11:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by oldscratch \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Silo \* > > \*\*Guanolad’s right, natural highs are healthy and beneficial for your body and mind where as artificial highs aren’t as beneficial. I’m having trouble seeing logic in the arguments against that point. \*\* > > Actuall BridshitKid isn’t right. How is taking half a hit of e, or shooting up with adrenalin any less helathy than getting mad at your wife, or sitting in front of a dreamcast for 8 hours, or playing sports? > > Easting sugar is healthy for you? Don’t you know what that does to your personality GuanoLad? Have you ever seen a kid after they’ve injested too much sugar? \*\* Well specifically I meant natural highs from exercise, sex, meditation, accomplishments, etc… From a “chemical” point of view these endogenous highs have virtually no downside what-so-ever, and lots of upside. Put simply there healthy, and hey, no hangovers. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/85 "2000-12-06T22:16:34Z")
Just to clarify for you oldscratch, it wasn’t _what_ you called him, it was your derogatory tone that I take issue with. If you’re making fun of someone’s name, as a lark or in jest, I don’t care. I took your post this time to be a barbed insult. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/86 "2000-12-07T00:52:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by oldscratch \* > > > [@](#): > > > > _Posted by G_@#$Lad\* > > \*\*Because they’re addressing chemical imbalances in controlled doses for the benefit of the patient’s health - they aren’t playing around with unmeasured substances for the sake of a risky buzz. > > \*\* > > Well here you’re making several assumptions. What’s wrong with using illegal drugs in controlled doses for the mental or physical health benefits of the user? \*\* Okay, two points: Firstly, illegal is illegal. That’s wrong in itself. Secondly, I wasn’t even saying it was wrong. I just think it’s sad that people have this need or desire to get their happiness in a pill rather through natural human means. (Not including those who have natural chemical imbalances, and are under strict medical supervision and drug therapy to help them. And you all **know** that is not comparable to recreational drug use. You’re all just being deliberately obstinate because you think drugs are okay for fun. You’re baiting me) ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/87 "2000-12-07T01:06:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GuanoLad \* > \*\* > Okay, two points: > > Firstly, illegal is illegal. That’s wrong in itself. \*\* So it’s wrong for two men to have sex in Texas but not in california? man you have some weird morals… > [@](#): > > \*\* > Secondly, I wasn’t even saying it was wrong. I just think it’s sad that people have this need or desire to get their happiness in a pill rather through natural human means. \*\* why? what makes it different? The same chemical reactions occur in your head? THe body doesn’t know what causes it? Why is it sad? > [@](#): > > \*\* > And you all **know** that is not comparable to recreational drug use. You’re all just being deliberately obstinate because you think drugs are okay for fun. > \*\* Actually I’m not… I’m being completely serious. My friend gets far more helpfull therapy from e than he does from paxil. Are you saying he should use something less helpfull? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/88 "2000-12-07T03:07:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by oldscratch \* > > So it’s wrong for two men to have sex in Texas but not in california? man you have some weird morals… Oh for god’s sake, stick to the topic. Stop twisting what I say. > [@](#): > > Secondly, I wasn’t even saying it was wrong. I just think it’s sad that people have this need or desire to get their happiness in a pill rather through natural human means > > why? what makes it different? The same chemical reactions occur in your head? THe body doesn’t know what causes it? Why is it sad? Because you aren’t relying on your own humanity to get your pleasure and happiness, you’re relying on artifice. > [@](#): > > My friend gets far more helpfull therapy from e than he does from paxil. Are you saying he should use something less helpfull? I’d prefer it, yes. ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/89 "2000-12-07T03:20:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GuanoLad \* > \*\* > Oh for god’s sake, stick to the topic. Stop twisting what I say. \*\* Well I’d love to but I don’t have to… You said “Firstly, illegal is illegal. That’s wrong in itself.” Sodomy is illegal. Sodomy is wrong. would you care to change that snetance, or do you stick to your original declaration? > [@](#): > > \*\* > Because you aren’t relying on your own humanity to get your pleasure and happiness, you’re relying on artifice. \*\* So is it bad when people get endorphin rushes from spicy food? Should I stop eating it because it’s not part of my own humanity and it causes endorphin rushes? > [@](#): > > \*\* > I’d prefer it, yes. > \*\* so basicly it comes down to having people not help themselves or do what might be most healthy for them, but conforming to your own twisted sense of what’s right and wrong. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/90 "2000-12-07T03:49:42Z")
Am I asking anyone to conform to my own ideals? I’m just stating my opinion. I think I’m allowed that. It differs from yours. There. My ideas aren’t wrong, neither are yours. They’re just different. In my ideal world, well, you sure wouldn’t be living there that’s for sure. You’d decide very early on that it wasn’t for you. And as for sodomy being wrong, that’s your own words. I never said that. It’s perfectly legal where I’m from. Also, this is TOTALLY irrelevant, and you KNOW it. Breaking the law is wrong. That’s a fact. It just is, no matter how archaic one may think the given law is. ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/91 "2000-12-07T04:10:21Z")
I really dont like the idea that we all seem to be ganging up on Guanolad, but seriously… if you make as bold of a statement as he tends to, you have to expect adversity. I, for one, have to disagree with illegal = bad for obvious reasons. (I’d like to see someone try to arrest me for engaging in oral sex… Haha Whats that on your lip, ma’am?" “mmhnmm.” “You have the right to remain silent…” _garglecough_) Woah. I just fell WAY off the topic. In any case, Im not trying to pull unrelated arguments from nowhere just to prove a point When I was in highschool, there were parents who wouldnt let their children engaged in PE class because they felt it was needlessly endangering their children. There are alot of people who would chastize those parents for depriving their children of experience. Its not that different, if you look at it without bias. Guanolad, its not that we dont understand your side of the argument, its just that we’ve been hearing the same propoganda concerning drug use since we were all knee high to a duck, with very little evidence to back it up. I dont know if you had Drug Abuse Resistance Education (DARE) wherever you are, but I did… and thinking back… they taught us the evils of drug use using fear, not facts. If you preached to anyone about anything using fear as a tactic, and avoiding fact save for one or two -extreme- cases, you’re bound to make believers out of people. But there comes a time when you have to step back from the flock and reassess the sheepherders regime, ya know? Eh. Nuff said… Its a stalemate issue. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/92 "2000-12-07T04:33:53Z")
_sigh_ You guys are a trial. ---
**Author:** ![tennents](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/fbc32d/32.png) [@tennents](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tennents)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/93 "2000-12-07T04:45:13Z")
## Uncle Beer: quote: ## A tablet of “XTC” generally runs $20-$30. and ## quote: ## While you may roll 4 tabs of E at a rave to get you all fired … Jesus Christ! How the hell can teenagers even afford this? Shit. I can buy 3 or 4 bottles of good scotch for that kind of money, and that’ll last 6 or 8 weeks. That’s it. Your mother and I are cutting your allowances. Now I would have to agree that there really doesn’t exist anything you could call “bad” Scotch but there definatley does exist “good” scotch and I have a difficult time wrapping my mind around the fact that you can obtain “good” scotch for 20$ a bottle. ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/94 "2000-12-07T05:27:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GuanoLad \* > \*\*Am I asking anyone to conform to my own ideals? \*\* Yes, on numerous occasions you have… > [@](#): > > \*\* > I’m just stating my opinion. I think I’m allowed that. It differs from yours. There. My ideas aren’t wrong, neither are yours. They’re just different. \*\* Your ideas are wrong. You are allowed to state them, and I’m allowed to point out the foolishness of them > [@](#): > > \*\* > In my ideal world, well, you sure wouldn’t be living there that’s for sure. You’d decide very early on that it wasn’t for you. \*\* I have no idea what you’re talking about with this… please explain… > [@](#): > > \*\* > And as for sodomy being wrong, that’s your own words. I never said that. It’s perfectly legal where I’m from. Also, this is TOTALLY irrelevant, and you KNOW it. > Breaking the law is wrong. That’s a fact. It just is, no matter how archaic one may think the given law is. \*\* No… it was brought up as a point. You believe that anything a law is passed against is worong, a very strange belief I must admit. This puts you in a very small minority. It also puts you in the wrong. It’s good to know that if slavery was legal you would argue against slaves escaping. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/95 "2000-12-07T06:13:12Z")
> [@](#): > > You believe that anything a law is passed against is worong, a very strange belief I must admit. No I did not say that at all. I said BREAKING THE LAW is wrong IN ITSELF. I’m not passing judgement on what the actual law refers to, I’m saying to INTENTIONALLY BREAK A LAW is doing the WRONG THING. See? I can’t understand why you haven’t been able to grasp this point. You keep missing it entirely, and if I was in the Pit I know what I’d blame for your inability to GET IT. ---
**Author:** ![zen101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c68b51/32.png) [@zen101](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zen101)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/96 "2000-12-07T06:32:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GuanoLad \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > You believe that anything a law is passed against is worong, a very strange belief I must admit. > > No I did not say that at all. > > I said BREAKING THE LAW is wrong IN ITSELF. > > I’m not passing judgement on what the actual law refers to, I’m saying to INTENTIONALLY BREAK A LAW is doing the WRONG THING. > > See? I can’t understand why you haven’t been able to grasp this point. You keep missing it entirely, and if I was in the Pit I know what I’d blame for your inability to GET IT. > \*\* So you **do** think it was wrong for abolitionists to assist slaves in escaping? That is what you are saying, isn’t it? Oh and don’t bother stating that it’s off topic as it is not, it is a question designed to illustrate a point related to your stated thoughts on the topic thus making it on topic itself. So? Huh? Do ya? Do ya? BTW, what is the intrinsic value of “wrong”? Jaywalking is illegal, so jaywalking is wrong because it is breaking a law too. Does breaking the law in regards to jaywalking have the same intrinsic value of breaking the law regarding rape? Not the act comitted but the law violated. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/97 "2000-12-07T06:49:10Z")
Okay, look. Here is what I mean by this. What the actual law is is not the issue here. That’s not my point. We all know that breaking a law means you get in big trouble. By definition, this is called ‘a crime.’ Therefore to break a law is doing wrong. This does not mean that right and wrong, in anyone’s personal belief system, is defined by the specific law. Just that to actively, intentionally, deliberately break a law is wrong in itself. I know some laws may be considered stupid, or immoral in themselves, or are just outdated. Whatever. Not my point. Don’t give a monkey’s any more. Not even why I am here in the first place . Despite what oldscratch thinks, all I originally said was I thought it sad that people feel the need to find happiness in a pill instead of in laughter. ---
**Author:** ![Rasa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rasa/32/3578_2.png) [@Rasa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rasa)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/98 "2000-12-07T06:53:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \I know what I’d blame for your inability to GET IT. Oh, he so gets it… [sub]Hey, it’s MPSIMS… I had to say it. Besides, haven’t you three had this argument before?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/99 "2000-12-07T06:59:59Z")
Yes. That’s why I can’t understand why he’s being so annoying - clearly he has his brain on neutral whenver I try to put my point across. ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2000, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541/100 "2000-12-07T07:07:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GuanoLad \* > \*\* > We all know that breaking a law means you get in big trouble. By definition, this is called ‘a crime.’ \*\* Not for all laws… > [@](#): > > \*\* > Therefore to break a law is doing wrong. \*\* Says you… Of course, once again you’re in the minority here. You made the argument that doing drugs is wrong simply because it’s illegal, zen and others have pointed out that this is a fallacy. > [@](#): > > \*\* > This does not mean that right and wrong, in anyone’s personal belief system, is defined by the specific law. Just that to actively, intentionally, deliberately break a law is wrong in itself. \*\* again… is it wrong for a heterosexual couple to engage in oral sex in the privacy of their own home? Is it wrong for an abolitionist to free slaves. Is it wrong for someone to protest war by having a sit in? Is it wrong take a child away from an abusive home? > [@](#): > > \*\*Despite what oldscratch thinks, all I originally said was I thought it sad that people feel the need to find happiness in a pill instead of in laughter. \*\* True… but you said quite a bit more before that, and quite a bit more after words. Things like you think it’s better for someone to lead an unhealthy and unhappy life than to do illegal drugs. and certain things regarding rights and wrongs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pill-better-than-xtc/43541.md?page=6)