# A Pit thread for Asahi **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944 "2019-02-04T14:14:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/201 "2021-09-09T11:52:13Z")
> [@Virginia gov. yearbook page has Klan and blackface pictures](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/virginia-gov-yearbook-page-has-klan-and-blackface-pictures/828809/254): > > Northam “protected” the Negro from the Republican party’s racism; therefore, people should be grateful. “NEGRO”?! He actually uses the word, “negro”? That’s only 50 years out of date and totally offensive. That one word pretty much exposes his mindset and morals. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2021, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/202 "2021-09-09T11:59:26Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Re Obama, a few years ago I was debating a conservative, and said the Republicans had always refused to cooperate with Obama because they didn’t want him to achieve anything - a point I had heard many times from the left. He said it wasn’t true, so I looked it up, and he was right: So, that article says that (even though the leadership of the republican party had an explicit goal of obstructing Obama,) Obama was a skilled enough politician to woo a few critical republican votes. But he had to do it really quietly so it didn’t look like those politicians were working with him. That doesn’t contradict “the Republicans had always refused to cooperate with Obama because they didn’t want him to achieve anything”. ---
**Author:** ![omenran](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omenran/32/3318_2.png) [@omenran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/omenran)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/203 "2021-09-10T07:53:25Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > There’s a good and obvious reason for anyone to support ending earmarks, and you say you agreed with the arguments yourself at the time. So why assume a nefarious motive? My answer to this- which may be different than @k9bfriender’s- is that while to people outside of DC and Congress, cutting out earmarks and spending in unrelated bills seems good at face value, the real benefit and usefulness of them might have been the way they allowed some greater movement to the gears of Congress. It also may have made more money available for infrastructure that didn’t have to be rolled into one huge bill. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/204 "2021-09-10T10:43:44Z")
If the chief complaint from the “excluded middle” is “look at all this bullshit coming from both sides” rather than “my God the right has gone dangerously insane”, then they aren’t anything close to “the adults on the room”. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/205 "2021-09-10T11:20:47Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > So, that article says that (even though the leadership of the republican party had an explicit goal of obstructing Obama,) Obama was a skilled enough politician to woo a few critical republican votes. But he had to do it really quietly so it didn’t look like those politicians were working with him. > > That doesn’t contradict “the Republicans had always refused to cooperate with Obama because they didn’t want him to achieve anything”. What about this one on repealing the Bush tax cuts? > He dispatched Vice President Joe Biden to hash out an agreement with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (despite Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s desire to hold out for more). The final deal, largely repealing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, created a tax code that the [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/05/business/after-fiscal-deal-tax-code-may-be-most-progressive-since-1979.html) said could be “by some measures … the most progressive in a generation.” And nearly every Senate Republican, and one-third of House Republicans, voted for it. > [@omenran](#): > > My answer to this- which may be different than @k9bfriender’s- is that while to people outside of DC and Congress, cutting out earmarks and spending in unrelated bills seems good at face value, the real benefit and usefulness of them might have been the way they allowed some greater movement to the gears of Congress. > > It also may have made more money available for infrastructure that didn’t have to be rolled into one huge bill. This may be apparent in hindsight, but was it at the time? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/206 "2021-09-10T12:03:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If the chief complaint from the “excluded middle” is “look at all this bullshit coming from both sides” rather than “my God the right has gone dangerously insane”, then they aren’t anything close to “the adults on the room”. Once again, a false choice. Por que no los dos? I even pointed that out explicitly in the post you directly addressed: > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m not saying that criticism of both sides demands equality of bullshit. It doesn’t even demand the same amount or kind of criticism. If I wasn’t clear enough in the past or in the above statement let me make it perfectly clear again: The right is currently much much worse than the left. So what exactly are you objecting to? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/207 "2021-09-10T12:17:33Z")
I’d say that the presidency was a time of extraordinary obstruction, punctuated by a tiny number of bipartisan efforts. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/208 "2021-09-10T12:45:57Z")
Just what you said - that supposed adults in the room are pushing back against extremism from both sides. That’s bullshit. The adults in the room recognize that the right has gone insane, and the left has not, not even close. And that the former is a major threat to the American system of democracy, and the latter is not a threat at all. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/209 "2021-09-10T12:55:20Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Re Obama, a few years ago I was debating a conservative, and said the Republicans had always refused to cooperate with Obama because they didn’t want him to achieve anything - a point I had heard many times from the left. He said it wasn’t true, so I looked it up, and he was right: Your careful phrasing here is duly noted. I mean, [Republicans _did_ engage in](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/12/republican-party-obstructionism-victory-trump-214498/) [unprecedented levels of deliberate obstructionism](https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311) even when offered concessions by Obama and the Democrats, and even on occasion [blocked their own recommended candidates and bills](https://theweek.com/articles/469675/mitch-mcconnells-amazing-filibuster-bill) if Obama showed support for them. But it is certainly true that they didn’t _always and in every instance_ refuse to support anything ever, so I suppose your statement is technically true, much in the same way that if I steal all your money, break your arms and legs and burn your house down but then give you a lollipop, it would be true that I wasn’t _always_ mean to you. Meanwhile… [https://www.wsj.com/articles/mcconnell-says-100-of-his-focus-is-on-blocking-biden-agenda-11620257305](https://www.wsj.com/articles/mcconnell-says-100-of-his-focus-is-on-blocking-biden-agenda-11620257305) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/210 "2021-09-10T12:57:55Z")
So is your position that until such time as the right is no longer a threat to democracy, you will brook no criticism of the left? And who decides when that correct equilibrium is reached? Is it also you? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/211 "2021-09-10T13:01:35Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So is your position that until such time as the right is no longer a threat to democracy, you will brook no criticism of the left? And who decides when that correct equilibrium is reached? Is it also you? He won’t admit there is extremism on the left. It’s not like anyone on the left is saying things like this: > [@Identity, politics, and the in-fighting of the left](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/identity-politics-and-the-in-fighting-of-the-left/843199/495): > > I want them to be afraid - so afraid that they embrace progressive policies because they come to believe the alternative is the guillotine. That means decent society needs to see them for what they are - the enemies of decency. At least until our society is significantly remade for the better. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/212 "2021-09-10T13:12:45Z")
Anything that implies, suggests, or comes anywhere close to “both sides” is utter bullshit and totally worthless. If you want to criticize an individual statement or action by someone on the left, that may or may not be appropriate, depending on the specifics. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/213 "2021-09-10T13:14:30Z")
What did I say that you think is extreme? You left out who I was describing there - fatcat billionaires and CEOs who utilize bigotry to manipulate and maintain power and control. Presumably, you left that part out because you’re a dishonest trolling piece of shit. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/214 "2021-09-10T13:23:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What did I say that you think is extreme? You left out who I was describing there - fatcat billionaires and CEOs who utilize bigotry to manipulate and maintain power and control. So what? Wanting _anyone_ to be in fear of the guillotine is extreme. And your statement is stupid anyway. Is being controlled by fatcat billionaires and CEOs just fine and dandy as long as they don’t use bigotry to do it? Corporations love progressive policies when that means slapping a rainbow flag on their logo or sending their employees on DEI training, while continuing to manufacture their products in third world sweatshops. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/215 "2021-09-10T13:24:26Z")
Go fuck yourself, you lying piece of garbage. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/216 "2021-09-10T13:28:29Z")
A convincing and well reasoned response. 😏 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/217 "2021-09-10T13:30:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Anything that implies, suggests, or comes anywhere close to “both sides” is utter bullshit and totally worthless. If you want to criticize an individual statement or action by someone on the left, that may or may not be appropriate, depending on the specifics. But I can’t express general criticism of any left positions because until such time as… what exactly? Tell you what… you just let me know when it’s okay. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/218 "2021-09-10T13:30:39Z")
Just check with me before you hit the post button, and I’ll be happy to let you know. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/219 "2021-09-10T13:43:08Z")
Fair enough. But only if you agree to give me plenty of warning before you roll out the guillotines. 😉 Nobody expects the public execution! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944/220 "2021-09-10T13:46:22Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > A convincing and well reasoned response. 😏 But at least it’s an honest one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pit-thread-for-asahi/828944.md?page=12)