# A pithy message for ZPG Zealot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 16, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678 "2010-03-16T18:40:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/41 "2010-03-16T22:39:40Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Not very observant are we. Actually, I love my family. It is one of the most important aspects of my life. However I find it very annoying when people seem to think that grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., are somehow not family or at least not relevant to the family. Can you point to examples of this? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/42 "2010-03-16T22:42:26Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I find it extremely insulting, not to mention stupid beyond the usual limits, that you seem to think that only qualifer for raising a child is calling yourself a parent. Can you point to where he has done this? > [@](#): > > Parents are the most likely suspects whenever a child is abused or murdered. Millions of people throughout history have been the Guardians and Caregivers of children, how dare you claim that what we have done is somehow less because we don’t care to have an illogical title applied to us. And this as well? Thanks awfully. > [@](#): > > And the ultimate in vile is probably telling a vulnerable child that the only way you will help them survive is if they deny their history and call you, mommy or daddy. Who does this? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/43 "2010-03-16T22:44:53Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > However I find it very annoying when people seem to think that grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., are somehow not family or at least not relevant to the family. Oooh, my first opportunity to point out a strawman! Asking adoptive guardians to share their experiences is in no way a negation of any other family member. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/44 "2010-03-16T22:51:20Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > It allows wealthy people to rescue all the cute little babies from their poor parents who can’t afford Nintendo thus giving them brand new pet children every year and freeing up all those poor ghetto people now that they don’t have to find childcare to take slave wage jobs. You seem to be operating under the delusion that children up for adoption have relatives who want to take care of them. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/45 "2010-03-16T22:51:48Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Can you point to examples of this? I expect it was my failure to call upon Mr. Drummond to be beaten to death for what he did to Arnold & Willis. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/46 "2010-03-16T22:53:07Z")
Nobody has said anything close to what you are claiming was said. Not even close. If you have a wet carp available in your general vicinity, I’d suggest you hand it to someone you trust and ask them to smack you with it. I mean that in the nicest way possible. If anything, **Skald** pitted you more for your overall history than your current behavior in that thread. I think he is generally just skeeved out by the things you post overall. And considering I just read a fucking thread where you defended a person’s right to murder their child, I can’t blame him. I mean I have seen some shit on these boards, but child murder? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/47 "2010-03-16T23:00:29Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I find it extremely insulting, not to mention stupid beyond the usual limits, that you seem to think that only qualifer for raising a child is calling yourself a parent. Parents are the most likely suspects whenever a child is abused or murdered. Millions of people throughout history have been the Guardians and Caregivers of children, how dare you claim that what we have done is somehow less because we don’t care to have an illogical title applied to us. Vile is forcing women to be unpaid surrogates. Vile is egotists that spend thousand of dollars to take babies from their native culture there are children in their home cities, if not in their very families, who need financial help. And the ultimate in vile is probably telling a vulnerable child that the only way you will help them survive is if they deny their history and call you, mommy or daddy. Merged ZPG Zealot’s thread, titled “a pithy message for Skald the Rhymer” into this one. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/48 "2010-03-16T23:02:18Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Parents are the most likely suspects whenever a child is abused or murdered. No they aren’t. The caretakers, caregivers, guardians (whatever you wanna call 'em) are. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/49 "2010-03-16T23:03:02Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Oh go away will you? You already started a multipage trainwreck thread to spout your crazy on this topic in GD a while back. Americans are not “stealing” Roma & other ethnicities of children from their homes. You’re a loony. I don’t know if it’s done in America, but there’s a long tradition in various European countries of forcibly taking Roma children from their parents. From “Rights Denied: The Roma of Hungary” > [@](#): > > After defeating and expelling the Ottoman Turks, the Hapsburg monarchy initiated an aggressive assimilation campaign. This was based on a mixture of rewards, such as residency and trade permits, and punishments, notably the prohibition of the itinerant lifestyle (1761 edict of Maria-Theresa), a ban of the use of Roma names (1761) and the Romany language (by Joseph II in 1783), and forced adoptions of Roma children by non-Roma families. From this [European Roma Rights Centre Report](http://www.errc.org/cikk.php?cikk=2290) > [@](#): > > International Adoption > > Patterns of assimilation and paternalism have, in more recent times, shifted. Two examples are illustrative of this. The first arose in Romania following the Ceausescu regime in the form of international adoption. Here, international humanitarian rhetoric, women’s rights, and the rights of the child intertwine to address what has been referred to as the “baby trade”. 6 Through the 1990s, the growth in international adoption notably and dispropo6rtionately impacted on Romani children. What has been observed is the following: > > ``` > Given that prejudice against the Gypsies in Romania is unlikely to be eliminated in the near future, adoption was thought to provide a humanitarian road out for some of these children, whose chances for productive lives would otherwise be slim. Many Romanians viewed the exodus of adopted Gypsy children as a legitimate means to rid the country of them at the expense of foreigners; there are others who resented the squandering of Western altruism and resources on Gypsies. 7 > > ``` > > What emerged as problematic were private, illegitimate adoptions that structured a system that situated the Romani within a power hierarchy. Foreigners indirectly became the privileged and Romani peoples (and Romani women, in particular), the victimised. . . . > > Between the years 1990 to 1996, legal documentation requirements revealed that the implementation of formalised laws resulted in the forced removal of newborn children from Romani parent(s) in Italy. The requirements established that a mother, father or a relative of the father must submit identity documents for a newborn within 10 days of birth. In cases where there was a failure to comply, the Court of Minors would then inform the parent(s) that failure to produce the appropriate documents would result in the child being taken and possibly put up for adoption. Upon request of the relatives, the deadline would then be extended for a period of three months. 9 For Romani families, however, this process often proved to be difficult, if not impossible. For example, two fairly common scenarios have been reported. The first relates to the Romani custom of marrying through traditional rites and common law marriages not recognised by the Italian State.. . . > > This situation instigated and perpetuated a situation where “[s]ocial workers and juvenile courts consider it their duty to take Romani children away from their parents and entrust them to Italian families – often as a prelude to adoption. Gratton Puxon’s “Roma: Europe’s Gypsies” talks about forced seizure and adoption of Roma children in Italy and Switzerland in the '80s. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/50 "2010-03-16T23:06:37Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I find it extremely insulting, not to mention stupid beyond the usual limits, that you seem to think that only qualifer for raising a child is calling yourself a parent. Parents are the most likely suspects whenever a child is abused or murdered. Millions of people throughout history have been the Guardians and Caregivers of children, how dare you claim that what we have done is somehow less because we don’t care to have an illogical title applied to us. Vile is forcing women to be unpaid surrogates. Vile is egotists that spend thousand of dollars to take babies from their native culture there are children in their home cities, if not in their very families, who need financial help. And the ultimate in vile is probably telling a vulnerable child that the only way you will help them survive is if they deny their history and call you, mommy or daddy. My brother and I were adopted as infants by a great Mom and Dad. They _are_ my Mom and Dad, the only ones we have ever known. I fail to see why you would have an issue with someone like me that calls them that, especially when…_they are_. Biology is farther down the list of calling a parent a good father or mother than is caring, love, nurturing and support. Do you not agree? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/51 "2010-03-16T23:22:28Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > **a pithy message for Skald the Rhymer.** That’th a nathty lithp you have there. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/52 "2010-03-16T23:27:48Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I find it extremely insulting, not to mention stupid beyond the usual limits, that you seem to think that only qualifer for raising a child is calling yourself a parent. Parents are the most likely suspects whenever a child is abused or murdered. Millions of people throughout history have been the Guardians and Caregivers of children, how dare you claim that what we have done is somehow less because we don’t care to have an illogical title applied to us. Vile is forcing women to be unpaid surrogates. Vile is egotists that spend thousand of dollars to take babies from their native culture there are children in their home cities, if not in their very families, who need financial help. And the ultimate in vile is probably telling a vulnerable child that the only way you will help them survive is if they deny their history and call you, mommy or daddy. I’m confused by your nonsense. You took on a parental role for your younger brother, which is a good thing. The practice you received will no doubt help you should you ever become a parent again (hopefully under much better circumstances). Nothing you did was vile, so far as I know, in spite of the fact that you were in the parental role. Why do you assume that other people who do what you did are vile? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/53 "2010-03-16T23:51:55Z")
Of course, guardians have never committed abusive acts. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/54 "2010-03-17T00:03:36Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Here’s a hint: When someone’s username indicates that they’re a one-trick pony, that’s a pretty good indicator that it’s safe to ignore them. > > Or (I find this the more fun approach) get a good chuckle out of their nuttery. Thats why I put big numbers in my name. I figure I am good for a couple years at least. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/55 "2010-03-17T00:06:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t know if it’s done in America, but there’s a long tradition in various European countries of forcibly taking Roma children from their parents. From “Rights Denied: The Roma of Hungary” I didn’t say it never happened in the past, but our resident whacko is under the delusion that all adoptions nowadays are by Americans who sneak into villages and snatch kids from their mother’s fingers, like some bizarre child catcher out of Dickens or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/56 "2010-03-17T00:15:06Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > \*\*ZPG Zealot \*\*is a one trick pony, apparently so filled with self-loathing and hatred of family that she will try to dominate and derail any thread that attempts to discuss family structure related issues. > > Zero Population Growth Zealot hates children, family, parents, and will take a steaming crap in your thread if you try to talk about them. Family structure is slavery and ownership to her. > > There are several posters on the SDMB with pet hot-button issues that no one is allowed to discuss without the point of the OP being lost in the volume of noise. Whenever any discussion begins about those issues, they will swoop in and attempt to dominate the thread until the discussion ends. > > You have probably seen this for yourself. Almost like a denial of service attack. > > \*\*Der Trihs \*\*will denounce religion in threads discussing faith until there is no point in continuing to follow the thread. > > There can be no talk about global warming that will not be drowned out by a rising flood of cites and posts by **GIGObuster**. > > And again, currently **FinnAgain** is doing the same thing, once again, in a thread that has a hint of critisism of Israel. > > These aren’t the only examples, and I am not attacking these posters for their behavior. But sometimes it would be nice to see these issues talked about without their sage input. Once they start in, the topic has been effectively threadshitted out of relevance. This is both amusing and disappointing, because if you read here often you can see it coming a mile away. > > \*\*ZPG Zealot \*\*has issues, regarding her personal family history and cannot tolerate anyone who does not see family structure as some form of slavery. It’s just more of the same hot-topic, one issue thread derailment that is normal here. > > Just step away from the thread, put a big DO NOT POST post-it on your computer screen, something, and let the discussion continue. Yes, we know your feelings in the matter. We don’t understand but we have read your viewpoint several times before. > > Find something else to do and let the discussion of the OP continue. Hi 🙂 Look, some people (including me) have issues they are interested in, and they post in threads about those issues. Personally, I don’t think I hijack threads. If people respond to me, I’ll respond to them. Otherwise, I’ve stated my opinion or made my contribution and I’m done. I don’t think I’ve done anything bad if people want to engage me in a conversation and the thread takes a turn to discuss only that conversation. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/57 "2010-03-17T01:09:55Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I find it extremely insulting, not to mention stupid beyond the usual limits, that you seem to think that only qualifer for raising a child is calling yourself a parent. Parents are the most likely suspects whenever a child is abused or murdered. Millions of people throughout history have been the Guardians and Caregivers of children, how dare you claim that what we have done is somehow less because we don’t care to have an illogical title applied to us. Vile is forcing women to be unpaid surrogates. Vile is egotists that spend thousand of dollars to take babies from their native culture there are children in their home cities, if not in their very families, who need financial help. And the ultimate in vile is probably telling a vulnerable child that the only way you will help them survive is if they deny their history and call you, mommy or daddy. I was adopted, at about the age of 1 year (give or take). I was not abused, and I was not murdered. I look at my adoptive parents as my parents. I called them Mom and Dad. They raised me, taught me right from wrong, took care of me when I got sick, and put up with my bullshit. They acted like my parents, and so they were my parents. I have no idea who, or where my “breeders” are. I don’t care - I know who my parents were. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/58 "2010-03-17T01:34:03Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > My brother and I were adopted as infants by a great Mom and Dad. They _are_ my Mom and Dad, the only ones we have ever known. I fail to see why you would have an issue with someone like me that calls them that, especially when…_they are_. > > Biology is farther down the list of calling a parent a good father or mother than is caring, love, nurturing and support. > > Do you not agree? I had this fact brought home to me forcefully by a five-year-old. His sperm donor "C"was a handsome, personable crackhead who turned his mother’s head, leading to his conception. One of “my boys” – the neighbor kids we took in when homeless in their teens – “M”, met and fell in love with her while she was carrying the kid, and was the only nurturing father the boy ever knew – though they chose to be honest with him about his parentage from the start. When I accidentally called “C” his daddy, he looked at me with the patented “Grownups can be SO stupid” expression only little kids can pull off, and said, “No, C’s my [scornfully] father.” Pointing to “M”, he said with pride, “He’s my daddy.” I learned my lesson about what really matters to a kid then and there. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/59 "2010-03-17T01:39:04Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Thats why I put big numbers in my name. I figure I am good for a couple years at least. Don’t be silly; we all know you’re all about [billfish](http://artfiles.art.com/5/p/LRG/8/850/PDTY000Z/billfish-of-the-world.jpg) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cuberdon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/45deac/32.png) [@cuberdon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuberdon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/60 "2010-03-17T01:55:49Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I was adopted, at about the age of 1 year (give or take). I was not abused, and I was not murdered. I look at my adoptive parents as my parents. I called them Mom and Dad. They raised me, taught me right from wrong, took care of me when I got sick, and put up with my bullshit. They acted like my parents, and so they were my parents. I have no idea who, or where my “breeders” are. I don’t care - I know who my parents were. It’s great that has been your experience. A lot of posters, adoptive parents and children alike, have shared similar in the thread referenced by the OP. Unfortunately it does not seem to have made a dent in Z’s worldview. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678.md?page=4)