# A pithy message for ZPG Zealot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 16, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678 "2010-03-16T18:40:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/81 "2010-03-17T16:07:07Z")
**ZPG Zealot,** I’ve asked you several questions. Are you capable of answering them, or are you just blowing smoke out of your ass? ---
**Author:** ![CircleofWillis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@CircleofWillis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CircleofWillis)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/82 "2010-03-17T16:26:25Z")
ZPG, are you my mom? I’m gonna ask you, okay? And you say yes, okay? ZPG, are you my mom? ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/83 "2010-03-17T16:56:07Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Actually, I think the situations you have described make a good case that some people should be sterilized. And in the first case there is also the argument that the trainwreck of the mother’s life could have been prevented by proper intervention into her family life while she was a child. Or even now. There is no reason some social agencies shouldn’t be trying harder to help her overcome her problems rather than just trying to harvst babies from her. Erm, **ZPG** … perhaps proper intervention could have helped when she was a child. In some other timeline maybe she’s a perfectly good mother. But in this world, she did not get that intervention. Right NOW she is a mess who can’t take care of a houseplant. Like wise, she wasn’t sterilized. She already had the kids. There probably isn’t much even a determined social worker could do to make her fit to be a mother. Unless you’ve got a time machine in your garage, you have to work with the situation as it is NOW. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/84 "2010-03-17T17:06:37Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > People use the verb “to parent” differently from the way you use it. They don’t mean any offense by it, it’s merely a way to describe what your role was in the kids’ life. Exactly. It’s like the phrase “He labored in the field.” He may not be a laborer, though. If you’re in a union doing a union job there are specific classifications for who is a laborer and who might be, say, a carpenter or an electrician or a welder. You do not want to get those classifications mixed up on any official form. They’re completely separate. Yet it’s perfectly acceptable to say “He labored in the field.” Because “labored” and “laborer” are two separate words with two distinct meanings. Likewise, being a “parent” and “parenting” are two separate words with two distinct meanings. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/85 "2010-03-17T17:12:45Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Skald, ZPG Zealot has a point. The world doesn’t move to the beat of just one drum. And what might be right for you, may not be right for some. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am out of death traps. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/86 "2010-03-17T17:27:41Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Erm, **ZPG** … perhaps proper intervention could have helped when she was a child. In some other timeline maybe she’s a perfectly good mother. But in this world, she did not get that intervention. Right NOW she is a mess who can’t take care of a houseplant. Like wise, she wasn’t sterilized. She already had the kids. There probably isn’t much even a determined social worker could do to make her fit to be a mother. Unless you’ve got a time machine in your garage, you have to work with the situation as it is NOW. And the situation NOW seems to be people are quite comfortable using this woman to make babies for adoption rather than give her the extensive, inpatient, and yeah, probably expensive mental health care she needs to break this cycle. You know, adopters are always quick to point out how “unselfishly” they have spent money to obtain babies, but the truth is if they were actually concerned about these women and their children they would demand the government provide the proper safety net for vulnerable people and donate some of their own cash and time to the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/87 "2010-03-17T17:34:01Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And the situation NOW seems to be people are quite comfortable using this woman to make babies for adoption rather than give her the extensive, inpatient, and yeah, probably expensive mental health care she needs to break this cycle. You know, adopters are always quick to point out how “unselfishly” they have spent money to obtain babies, They do? > [@](#): > > but the truth is if they were actually concerned about these women and their children they would demand the government provide the proper safety net for vulnerable people and donate some of their own cash and time to the effort. They do! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/88 "2010-03-17T17:34:57Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Fucking Designated Hitter rule is ruining baseball. I momentarily read this as “Hitler,” and wondered if my ignorance of sports ran even deeper than I thought… ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/89 "2010-03-17T17:41:47Z")
Dear Contrapuntal, any cop will tell you the first question in a child murder is “Where were the parents and what were they doing?” A quick article to peruse [Psychiatry Online](http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/162/9/1578), Friedman lists parents as the responsible party in 61% of all murders of children under the age of 5. The whole premise of modern adoption is based on the idea of unspoken, but it’s definitely there of not giving a damn about children unless some individual gets to claim those children as their children, their “property”. Recently I had a woman tell me how she made the unselfish sacrifice of spending tens of thousands of dollars to adopt a baby from the former Yugoslavia. I have lived in former Yugoslavia. I know what conditions are like there. In the hands of an honest charity, and there are some very good , honest charities working there that money would have supported dozens if not a hundred children. Of course, Mrs. Infertile wouldn’t get a baby to pretend that her uterus wasn’t a dried up sack. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/90 "2010-03-17T17:48:07Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Recently I had a woman tell me how she made the unselfish sacrifice of spending tens of thousands of dollars to adopt a baby from the former Yugoslavia…Of course, Mrs. Infertile wouldn’t get a baby to pretend that her uterus wasn’t a dried up sack. I know this is useless, but I have not had the privilege of attempting reason with you. Based on your quoted statement, are you suggesting that most people who care for adopted children lie and pretend as if they’d had those children by natural birth? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/91 "2010-03-17T17:55:12Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Dear Contrapuntal, any cop will tell you the first question in a child murder is “Where were the parents and what were they doing?” A quick article to peruse [http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/162/9/1578](http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/162/9/1578), Friedman lists parents as the responsible party in 61% of all murders of children under the age of 5. The whole premise of modern adoption is based on the idea of unspoken, but it’s definitely there of not giving a damn about children unless some individual gets to claim those children as their children, their “property”. Recently I had a woman tell me how she made the unselfish sacrifice of spending tens of thousands of dollars to adopt a baby from the former Yugoslavia. I have lived in former Yugoslavia. I know what conditions are like there. In the hands of an honest charity, and there are some very good , honest charities working there that money would have supported dozens if not a hundred children. Of course, Mrs. Infertile wouldn’t get a baby to pretend that her uterus wasn’t a dried up sack. These are the questions I asked : Where has \*\*Skald \*\*claimed that “that only qualif\*er for raising a child is calling yourself a parent.”? Where has he claimed that “what we (caregivers) have done is somehow less because we don’t care to have an illogical title applied to us.”? Who tells a vulnerable child that “the only way you will help them survive is if they deny their history and call you, mommy or daddy.”? And which of these questions did your post which I just quoted answer? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/92 "2010-03-17T17:55:38Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I know this is useless, but I have not had the privilege of attempting reason with you. > > Based on your quoted statement, are you suggesting that most people who care for adopted children lie and pretend as if they’d had those children by natural birth? I’ve noticed enough that do. I use to think it was merely pathetic. Now it seems rather evil. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/93 "2010-03-17T18:07:05Z")
There is no attempting rational argument with ZPGZ. She has stated in other threads that orphans should be raised in orphanages, not be adopted into families. And in some cases, would be better off dead than be adopted. And that in any family with adopted children, she and all others should be apprised of this so that she can judge why the kids are not up to par; otherwise the adoptive parents are living a lie to the world. And all adoptive parents are selfish baby snatchers. If you make a valid point, she will ignore it and go off on another poorly punctuated rant. She simply cannot fathom how any adoption can take place outside of snatching Roma babies. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/94 "2010-03-17T18:08:33Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I know this is useless, but I have not had the privilege of attempting reason with you. > > Based on your quoted statement, are you suggesting that most people who care for adopted children lie and pretend as if they’d had those children by natural birth? > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I’ve noticed enough that do. I use to think it was merely pathetic. Now it seems rather evil. Note of course that if you read the closed GD thread, you find that **ZPG’s** definition of “pretending as if they’d had those children by natural birth” is “People who don’t loudly and continuously inform the child and everyone they come in contact with that the child is adopted.” Because you can’t swim in the same pool as adopted children or you’ll go to hell or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/95 "2010-03-17T18:15:06Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > . She simply cannot fathom how any adoption can take place outside of snatching Roma babies. Bahh… Everybody knows heirloom babies taste so much better. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/96 "2010-03-17T18:18:17Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Dear Contrapuntal, any cop will tell you the first question in a child murder is “Where were the parents and what were they doing?” A quick article to peruse [http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/162/9/1578](http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/162/9/1578), Friedman lists parents as the responsible party in 61% of all murders of children under the age of 5. Dear ZPG Zealot, any cop will tell you that the first question asked in a beastiality case is “where’s the guy with a subscription to Cat Fancy and what was he doing?” A quick article to preuse [Occam's razor - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor) ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/97 "2010-03-17T18:37:31Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Dear Contrapuntal, any cop will tell you the first question in a child murder is “Where were the parents and what were they doing?” The first question cops ask when there’s a murder of a married person is “Where is the spouse and what were they doing?” So, we should ban marriage, too dangerous. The first question cops ask when there’s a workplace homicide is “Who got fired recently and have they been seen in the building?” So, we should ban firing people, too dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/98 "2010-03-17T18:45:53Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t know if it’s done in America, but there’s a long tradition in various European countries of forcibly taking Roma children from their parents. From “Rights Denied: The Roma of Hungary” > > From this [European Roma Rights Centre Report](http://www.errc.org/cikk.php?cikk=2290) > > Gratton Puxon’s “Roma: Europe’s Gypsies” talks about forced seizure and adoption of Roma children in Italy and Switzerland in the '80s. On the other hand, in Bulgaria the only children generally available for international adoption at the time we adopted were Roma, and they were allowed out of the country as infants rather than the much later age at which “ethnic Bulgarians” were released. It was explained to us that Roma children would never be adopted by ethnic Bulgarians. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/99 "2010-03-17T19:04:03Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I momentarily read this as “Hitler,” and wondered if my ignorance of sports ran even deeper than I thought… Me too! I love the idea of baseball having a **Designated Hitler Rule**. I might watch it if it did. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678/100 "2010-03-17T19:09:00Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Dear Contrapuntal, any cop will tell you the first question in a child murder is “Where were the parents and what were they doing?” Got it. Letting birth parents raise their own kids is dangerous. We should encourage adoption as much as possible so that responsible guardians will take care of kids instead. Thanks for the info! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pithy-message-for-zpg-zealot/532678.md?page=6)