# A pitting for Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 19, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791 "2021-07-19T01:39:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/1 "2021-07-19T01:39:03Z")
For his performance in the Why don’t liberals and Democrats fully embrace atheism? thread, starting here: > [@Why don't liberals and Democrats fully embrace atheism?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/196): > > (Which country?) Were you concerned that might pray for you? I’m not going to quote any more than that, there’s too much to quote and you can go over there and read it. His hateful responses there, basically saying that if oppression doesn’t amount to genocide then it doesn’t count as oppression, got the thread closed for a while (for taking it way off track) and not-quite-a-mod-note from Raventhief, which I wish had been stronger for the disingenuous shit Mr. Paul was spewing in that thread. So thank you, @Paul_was_in_Saudi for telling us all who you really are. It’s really too bad you ever left Saudi, clearly you had found a home there for your hatefulness and bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/2 "2021-07-19T01:54:03Z")
Although that thread was fucking ridiculous from the OP, Paul found a way to really fuck it up terminal style. Fucking Hitler and Stalin. Whay a fuckstick. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/3 "2021-07-19T02:48:37Z")
I think he lived in religious autocracies so long that it rotted his brain. He also seems to think atheism is a religion, whereas Communism in Russia and China looks a lot more like a religion than any atheism I’ve ever seen. Saints, holy write, icons, killing anyone who espouses heresy. As for the impact of religion in the past 50 years, maybe Northern Ireland rings a bell? Sri Lanka? Religious wars are hardly over. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/4 "2021-07-19T02:51:32Z")
I was very confused by his claim that Stalin followed modern science. Has he never heard of Lysenkoism? If you haven’t either, here’s a link [Lysenkoism - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/5 "2021-07-19T02:55:22Z")
I was also confused by his claim the Nazis were atheists. Yes, they destroyed established religions. But IIRC Himmler and Hitler had plans to establish an official neo pagan state endorsed faith. I had a great link to site about the elaborate SS totenkopf (death’s head) rings and the shrine and practices associated with them. That site is no more. Here’s another Wikipedia link [SS-Ehrenring - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Ehrenring) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/6 "2021-07-19T02:55:31Z")
Hey, at least he’s right about the Nazi’s being athiests, [![](https://p1.liveauctioneers.com/1011/28627/10995282_1_x.jpg?auto=webp&format=pjpg&quality=80&version=1330042748&width=512) ](https://p1.liveauctioneers.com/1011/28627/10995282_1_x.jpg?auto=webp&format=pjpg&quality=80&version=1330042748&width=512) oh… ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/7 "2021-07-19T03:08:59Z")
Again from Wikipedia > [@Wikipedia](#): > > The historic example which Himmler used in practice as the model for the [SS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS) was the [Society of Jesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Jesus), since Himmler found in the Jesuits what he perceived to be the core element of any order, the doctrine of obedience and the cult of the organisation.[[81]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_aspects_of_Nazism#cite_note-81) The evidence for this largely rests on a statement from [Walter Schellenberg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Schellenberg) in his memoirs (Cologne, 1956, p. 39), but Hitler is also said to have called Himmler “my [Ignatius of Loyola](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Loyola)”.[[82]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_aspects_of_Nazism#cite_note-82) As an order, the SS needed a coherent doctrine that would set it apart. Himmler attempted to construct such an ideology, and to this purpose he deduced a “pseudo-Germanic tradition”[[83]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_aspects_of_Nazism#cite_note-83) from history. However, this attempt was not entirely successful. Höhne observes that “Himmler’s neo-pagan customs remained primarily a paper exercise”.[[84]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_aspects_of_Nazism#cite_note-84) And from Himmler "“We believe in a God Almighty who stands above us; he has created the earth, the Fatherland, and the Volk, and he has sent us the Führer. Any human being who does not believe in God should be considered arrogant, megalomaniacal, and stupid and thus not suited for the SS.” I cannot conceive of a definition of “atheist” that fits this man. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/8 "2021-07-19T04:20:46Z")
Yeah, but he wasn’t a _True_ Christian! ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/9 "2021-07-19T05:06:26Z")
#NotAllChristians ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/10 "2021-07-19T05:36:38Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I was also confused by his claim the Nazis were atheists. A public elementary school kid who paid attention in social studies should know better than that shit. For fuck’s sake, they used religious iconography in everything. Hitler was obsessed with religious relics. > **[Hitler's Holy Relics](https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Hitlers-Holy-Relics/Sidney-Kirkpatrick/9781416590637)** > > From Paris to Stalingrad,​ the Nazis systematically plundered all manner of art and antiquities, but the first and most valuable treasures they loo... ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/11 "2021-07-19T06:58:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > A public elementary school kid who paid attention in social studies should know better than that shit. For fuck’s sake, they used religious iconography in everything. Hitler was obsessed with religious relics. Hell, just one who went to the movies… > **[Raiders of the Lost Ark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raiders_of_the_Lost_Ark)** > > Raiders of the Lost Ark\[b\] is a 1981 American action-adventure film directed by Steven Spielberg from a screenplay by Lawrence Kasdan, based on a story by George Lucas and Philip Kaufman. Set in 1936, the film stars Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones, a globetrotting archaeologist vying with Nazi German forces to recover the long-lost Ark of the Covenant which is said to make an army invincible. Teaming up with his tough former romantic interest Marion Ravenwood (Karen Allen), Jones races to sto... ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/12 "2021-07-19T09:31:49Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Lysenkoism Was the apogee of modern science in the day and the place. Of course it was mistaken. Nowadays our science is perfect. Yessir. Not a chance at all that we are wrong again. Nonesoever. In any case, I seem to be getting a vibe that religious people should just take it when people make bigoted comments. Telling people to shut up seems antithetical to the exchange of ideas. You guys enjoy yourself. I have started a new retirement job and will not be back online until the end of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/13 "2021-07-19T09:42:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Hell, just one who went to the movies… I never know when my leg is being pulled. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/14 "2021-07-19T09:43:47Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Hey, at least he’s right about the Nazi’s being athiests, “God is with us” was of course the German Army motto. It predates the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/15 "2021-07-19T09:53:09Z")
Imo, atheism is a religion in the since that its an absolutist belief system not supported by facts and bogged down in semantics as to what a deity is or isnt. No one knows and no one is ever likely to know if the universe has some sort of a creator. Now agnosticism on the other hand is closer to the truth as we understand it…’ **Agnostics** assert that it’s impossible for human beings to know anything about how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist.’. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/16 "2021-07-19T10:04:31Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > In any case, I seem to be getting a vibe that religious people should just take it when people make bigoted comments. Telling people to shut up seems antithetical to the exchange of ideas. I’m a Christian, too. No one was being bigoted toward religious people in that thread. In fact, quite the opposite: people were defending Christianity throughout the thread. A poster pointed out that they were scared to come out as queer because of the well-known and well-documented bigoted violence and discrimination from Christians toward LGBT people. He didn’t say that all Christians would be that way, but it only takes one. You then decided to mock him by acting like the only thing an LGBT person would have to fear is being prayed for. That’s not even true now, let alone in decades past. And even if you were somehow unaware of the history, the tone was clearly mockery. We have a duty as Christians to care for the oppressed. Mocking them is not caring for them. Their talking about the darker parts of our history is not them oppressing us. The attitude that we Christians are the oppression victims is what gets us labeled as selfish people who only care about those who are like us. The reality is that, 99 times out of 100, we are not the one facing persecution—at least, not for being Christian. Having such a large chip on your shoulder is not good. It’s exactly what leads to the politics of resentment we see today, where people are willing to compromise their Christian principles to go after “the enemy.” You know, where you hear Christians talking about “owning the libs” and “liberal tears.” It’s almost as damaging as the other childish attitude of “you can’t tell me what to do!” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/17 "2021-07-19T10:11:42Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Imo, atheism is a religion in the since that its an absolutist belief system not supported by facts and bogged down in semantics as to what a deity is or isnt. No one knows and no one is ever likely to know if the universe has some sort of a creator. Now agnosticism on the other hand is closer to the truth as we understand it…’ **Agnostics** assert that it’s impossible for human beings to know anything about how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist.'. It really isn’t, though, and I say this as a religious person myself. Atheism is just not believing in God. That’s it. It has no dogma or doctrine. It says nothing about “how the universe was created” or anything like that. It posits no moral code, no value system, no mythology, nothing. Yes, it’s not an entirely factual thing. But that doesn’t make it a religion. It’s as much a religion as theism is. That’s not to say that it is not covered by “religious freedom” since such inherently has to include living without participating in religion, regardless of your beliefs. You know, just like freedom of speech means you have a freedom not to speak, that freedom to assemble means you have the right to not assemble. Heck, if you assume the Second Amendment is about freedom to bear arms, it still inherently contains the freedom to NOT bear arms. So while I’ll argue that it is inherently protected under religious freedom, it really isn’t a religion by any normal use of the word. Heck, as pointed out, atheist doesn’t even mean that you aren’t spiritual. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/18 "2021-07-19T10:15:43Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > Was the apogee of modern science in the day and the place. No you miss the entire point. It was driven by a desire to have reality conform to what the revolutionaries wanted it to be. “Lysenkoism” has become the byword for politically driven pseudoscience precisely because it _was not_ the apogee of modern science in the day and place at all. Mendelian genetics was. But it got stomped on by the revolutionaries in favour of Lysenkoism for political reasons. Did you actually read the Wiki article? > [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > “God is with us” was of course the German Army motto. It predates the Nazis. And the Nazis were entirely incapable of effecting change in their army, and would have been unable to stop the army issuing badges that had both Nazi and theist elements. Right? Does the sand get in your ears down there? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/19 "2021-07-19T10:27:20Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Imo, atheism is a religion in the since that its an absolutist belief system not supported by facts and bogged down in semantics as to what a deity is or isnt. No one knows and no one is ever likely to know if the universe has some sort of a creator. Now agnosticism on the other hand is closer to the truth as we understand it…’ **Agnostics** assert that it’s impossible for human beings to know anything about how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist.’. There should be some sort of sticky about this given how often it comes up. No. You have been suckered (like an amazing number of others) by the number one strawman theists fabricate about atheists. An atheist is broadly a person who has no belief in a deity. A minority of atheists (often known as “hard” atheists) not only don’t have a belief in a deity but actually have a positive belief there are no deities. They are relatively rare. I think I know of one active Doper who is a hard atheist, and recall another couple from a decade or so back. Theists like to strawman atheists by attributing “hard atheist” views to them, so they can insist atheists have a positive absolutist belief system, which they can attack. In reality, theist fantasies are the only place you are actually likely to meet a hard atheist. Interestingly, atheism _encompasses_ agnostics since they don’t believe there is a deity which means they are atheist. Many agnostics don’t like to admit this because of the negative connotations surrounding the term “atheism” in religious cultures. Edited to add: do you _actually_ not know this? You’ve been here ten years. It’s been explained over and over. Or is it at the level of wilful ignorance (as it so often is, in my experience)? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791/20 "2021-07-19T11:35:03Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > atheism is a religion So true! As an atheist myself, I’m happy to tell you that my main hobby is not collecting stamps. What, not collecting stamps isn’t a hobby? How dare you! It’s as much of a hobby as atheism is a religion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pitting-for-paul-was-in-saudi/946791.md?page=2)