# A placeholder for Zenster **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2000, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429 "2000-12-13T23:33:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2000, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/41 "2000-12-14T22:41:47Z")
> [@](#): > > If Zenster has said his peace, it doesn’t look like this thread has a reason to live, so I’ll bow out … unless my temper gets the best of me, of course. Agreed. I will bow out as well, like you, with the caveat that if I see something else that offends me, I reserve the right to jump back in. I’ll try to control myself. > [@](#): > > P.S. - Snooooopy, Jesus, when you drop the gloves, you’re a fucking demon. Scary, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2000, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/42 "2000-12-14T22:43:11Z")
[Sister Mary Elephant] Class… Claaass… Claaaaaasssss… **Shut Up** [/Sister Mary Elephant] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*Oh, you people. Be _nice._ \*\* How nice to hear a voice of reason. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by obfusciatrist_ > **I honestly had not intended to participate in this thread…** Shucky darn **obfusciatrist** , for someone who “had not intended to participate in this thread,” you’re sure doin’ a lot of participatin’. I suspected that you might want to vent your spleen, or did it just burst of its own accord? Let me wipe away some of the bile and mention a few things.[list=1] ## [li]Throughout this thread I have maintained a civil tone in the hope that it would be returned in kind. Your lengthy posts demonstrate your inability to do so. I speculated to myself about the reasons for your negativity, but refused to broadcast my own suspicions. You have felt free to indulge in personal insult and derogatory depiction. So be it, but do not expect the same from me. However much it may have escaped you, throughout this thread I have routinely offered you olive branches. You have just as quickly thrown these onto the smoldering fire whose flames you continue to fan in the desperate hope of validating your rather lengthy tantrum. Your consistently bilious retorts have confirmed the animosity that I have so often witnessed in your posts. Your unwillingness to be constructive merely concretes the notion that you do not seek any resolution. Instead, it seems that you prefer discord to harmony. So be it, there is no accounting for taste.[/li][li]I have had prior communication with both **Democritus** and **pugluvr**. They have always been most cordial and I enjoy knowing them to the extent that I do. Your own insinuations and the motivations that you construe about my comments to them are so out of line as to rather graphically demonstrate the short supply of decency on your part. That is for you to concern yourself with as I refuse to engage in distasteful repartee. I do feel that you have done a distinct disservice to them, but that is only my opinion.[/li][li]I will leave you with a compilation of your past posts to my threads and others. Judge for yourself as to your own tone. You have also made posts that were civil in nature, but they are too easily canceled by the utter lack of positive comment in any of the others. It is certainly your prerogative to conduct yourself in whatever fashion that you see fit. Just don’t expect it to cut any ice with me if you are so routinely negative. Since we first met, I have repeatedly tried to make sure that you and **Baglady** were included in all events and I shall continue to do so. I feel that exclusionary games are best left behind in High School.[/li] _Your replies to the Holiday Party Threads_ > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \* > \*\*I was feeling kind of bad for missing this one, but seeing the number of musical instruments present I can only say that I made the correct decision. > > But I am sure you all had a great time. \*\* 12-04-2000 09:18 AM > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \* > \*\*As I said in another thread, it looks like music played _way_ too big a role in this party for me to have enjoyed myself. > > But it’s great that you all had such a good time. \*\* 12-04-2000 09:24 AM * * * _Your reply to my invitation to the Halloween Party_ > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \* > \*\*Sorry Zenster, > > Being is Berkeley is painful enough when I have to be there, I try to avoid visiting recreationally. > > Worse, Baglady and I are tied up all that weekend through Halloweeen. > > Maybe next time. \*\* 10-02-2000 02:45 PM _And mine._ > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > \*\*Sorry to hear it **Obfuscaitrist** and **Baglady**. We’ll get together soon, I hope. > \*\* 10-02-2000 04:41 PM * * * [li]Finally, you chose to upbraid me for using **Baglady** ’s real name in the pizza party thread. Yet it seemed to be of little consequence when it was used in her birthday thread by more than just me. The selective nature of your reaction is duly noted.[/li] > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Democritus \* > \*\*Happy Birthday \*\ ***!!!..** 10-31-2000 11:22 AM > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zenster \* > …Many happy returns \*\*\*\*,… > \*\* 10-31-2000 05:04 PM [sup]IRL NAME DELETED BY REQUEST[/sup] * * * Anyway, this will probably be my final post to this thread. There seems to be an air of vituperence that I refuse to participate in. If there are more constructive measures afoot, I will be happy to engage in them. **Ogre** , your notion that all of this should have transpired in email is probably one of the only intelligent comments in this thread (mine included). Having been invited to speak my mind, I did so. I am proud to say that I have in **no** way engaged in character asassination or the other mean spirited spouting that has gone on. I did my best to extend an olive branch and this was repeatedly denied. Had I merely continued to grapple I should most deservedly be tarred with your brush. **To all members of the board** , if this has proven to be a sordid spectacle, I most humbly apologize. I strive to bring an air of humor and gentility to our online community and would hope that you have received it in a like fashion. The caustic nature of so many replies to this thread has disappointed me as well. In the half year that I have been here this is the first such ocurrance and hopefully the last. I would like to give especial thanks **Jack Batty** for the one logical and sound observation about what started this entire fracas. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2000, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/43 "2000-12-14T23:03:12Z")
**Jack Batty** , that is exactly what I was doing. I have not been to a doper meeting since Folsom Street becuase none of them seemed large enough to easily avoid/ignore any one participant. In fact, I went so far as to develop mostly-true excuses for not being able to join - explicitly to avoid hurting anybody’s feelings. In fact if you look at the Super Bowl party thread you will find that when I accepted the invitation to Sue’s house I addressed it to both Sue and Zenster. I wanted to recognize his role in organizing the event. I fully intended to show up, be civil to Zenster and enjoy everybody else. This is still my intention. As for his pizza parties, I did not want to go for several reasons. San Jose is too far away to drive just to eat a particular pizza; the event likely would not be large enough to ignore Zenster; and finally, Zenster did not treat pricciar well when he disagreed on the quality of the pizza at Cicero’s. The first reason should have been the only one I gave, but I felt that Zenster’s behavior had been egregious enough to warrant mention regardless of my feelings for him (that said, I must admit that if I didn’t already dislike him I likely would have said nothing). As for taking this to email, I do think this is a public issue and I would like to keep it out of my inbox. I don’t come into the Pit often and thought it the appropriate place for Zenster and me to say what needed saying. If the moderators tell me I was wrong I will take it elsewhere. PS: One habit of Zenster’s that I do approve of, is his bolding of user names. I know other people do it as well, but I like it and will try to use it going forward. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2000, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/44 "2000-12-14T23:35:43Z")
Okay, **obfusciatrist**. You’re well within your rights. At this point I absolutely do not want to get in the middle of this, but it’s a shame I won’t get to meet you at Sue’s party. There are very few Dopers I don’t want to meet. Another time perhaps, as they say. [sub]I like that bolding idea too, it makes me feel less dopey in not capitalizing names[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2000, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/45 "2000-12-14T23:52:11Z")
I’ll ignore until later that I have no idea who Sister Mary Elephant is (this is the second time I have seen you use the reference so I should probably go look it up). I’ll just quickly address your points: Point 0: I know you don’t believe me, but I did intend to let you say whatever you wanted in this thread without comment from me. But you _requested_ that I participate, you don’t get to mock me now that I have. Point 1: Yes, you have been very civil. But in my opinion so have I. The fact that you don’t see that can be explained by your point #3. As for refusing your olive branches: I am not looking to be your friend; I don’t want to work out our differences. We are different personalities and it just so happens I don’t like yours. I am fine with that. The problem is that because you know I don’t like you, you perceive anything I say as an insult to you. Again, see your point #3. Point 2: If **puglvr** or **Democrotus** feel I have insulted them they can feel free to tell me and I will address it. But I think my point (sorry, I didn’t number them for easy reference) still stands; I’m sorry you didn’t care for the analogies. Point 3: **Zenster** , if this is what you consider being rude or a downer your really need to work on the thickness of your hide. You do realize that in not one of those posts you quoted did I make _any_ comment about you. Driving and parking in Berkeley is a bitch, I try not to go there unless I absolutely have to, plus I was in Los Angeles that weekend. I can see how that would insult you. It is well known on these boards (or I thought it was) that I do not like music. That is all I was referencing, again it had nothing to do with _you_. Perhaps you missed the part where I said I was happy people had a good time. Point 4: I assure you **Zenster** that if I had noticed the personal use of **baglady** ’s name in that thread I would have called both you and **Democritus**. If you want to use her real name all you likely have to do is ask. **Jack Batty** , why won’t you see me at the Doper party? Because you won’t be going or because you have emailed me asking that I not go? (I don’t have access to home email right now is why I ask.) Alternately, you may know something that I don’t know as of yet. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2000, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/46 "2000-12-15T00:43:07Z")
**obfusciatrist** , maybe, I’m confused. I was under the assumption that you said you weren’t going to attend. If you are in fact planning on attending Sue’s party, then I guess I’ll see you there. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2000, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/47 "2000-12-15T00:55:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by obfusciatrist \* > **…and finally, Zenster did not treat pricciar well when he disagreed on the quality of the pizza at Cicero’s. The first reason should have been the only one I gave, but I felt that Zenster’s behavior had been egregious enough to warrant mention regardless of my feelings for him (that said, I must admit that if I didn’t already dislike him I likely would have said nothing)…** Without wishing to extend this further I must ask you to please precisely identify exactly where I was **at all** abusive to **pricciar** in any way shape or form. His friend’s so-called review of [Cicero’s Pizza](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=48262) was extremely derogatory and offensive and in my reply I made mention of his friend only. Two other clarifications: [li]Only today in chat with someone else was it brought to my attention that you dislike music **obfusciatrist**. I have never seen it mentioned anywhere on these boards. It is difficult to see how such arcane information should be expected to be common knowledge.[/li]Speaking of common knowledge; Sister Mary Elephant was a fictional Catholic school teacher. Her character was made famous by the 70’s comedy group **Cheech and Chong**. ---
**Author:** ![Demo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demo/32/8472_2.png) [@Demo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2000, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/48 "2000-12-15T02:32:23Z")
I wanted to address a few things here: 1. Why didn’t the damn search engine pull this thread up when I searched for my own name? I must have had too many beers after I pulled up my lawn chair. 2. **obfus** , when you spelled my name “Democrotus”, it resembled “scrotum” too much. Damn it. 3. **obfus** , I apologize if I used **Baglady’s** name without permission. I hope I wasn’t out of line. 4. **pricciar** , you are a big asshole and everybody knows it. Stop acting like you were joking you rat felcher. 5. **Flypsyde** can gnaw on **Homer’s** cum-filled sock and die, for all I care. 6. Everyone whose heart is bleeding over this thread: Please. This is not “ugly”. This is the Pit! No matter that the board states it is for “complaints and other discussion regarding administration of the SDMB”, it has always, traditionally been the place for personal beefs as well. Yes, they could have taken it to e-mail, but the problem started and escalated out in the open, why not finish it in the open? 7. **Zenster** , you seem like a rational enough dude. I’m glad you think I’m a decent chap, I really try to be. Sometimes. Anyway, I wanted to say, just chill out a little bit. I think your explanation of your behavior at the FSF (I wasn’t there folks, so I don’t know what happened. This is just based off of board presence.) showed humility and that you can have keen insight into your own character, a feat that many can’t even approach. Use it on the fly, man. The fact that one is a doper, at least for me, has always been an automatic trump card in anyone’s hat that I have met at a dopefest. You don’t need to impress. Dopefests are for having a good time. Truthfully, I felt a little unease at going to the holiday dopefest because of the regimented way that you handled it. We have been having these dopefests for a long time and have been doing just fine in a relaxed manner. Nothing wrong with a little organization but, again, chill out a bit ok? Try not to force yourself or your ideas on anyone. 8. I have been to a few dopefests and there have been people that will never be my best friends at a couple. I have even bowed out of one because I was uncomfortable in certain company and behavior. There is a line that each of us have that is different for each person. I like to think my line is a bit more towards the thicker skin side (IOW, I’m gonna drink and have fun and the rest of you can go to hell for all I care - type attitude), but even I felt that it was better to leave than to endure the annoyance. I don’t see anything wrong with that. 9. Caveat: (I know, it’s at the end, but oh well.) Anyone who can not place mental smilies where they are needed and is offended by any part of the embedded attempts at humor: Tough titty for you. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2000, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/49 "2000-12-15T03:13:01Z")
Yes, the Cicero’s review was extremely derogatory. However, it was **not** offensive. You only found it offensive because it disagreed with your opinion. You are, of course, technically correct that you did not directly attack **pricciar** , you only attacked a friend of his. Although **pricciar** had endorsed this friends opinion. But this is merely a technicality. Regardless of whom you were attacking, the attack was an overreaction and unnecessary. Brought about only because someone dared disagree with you. Admittedly, in your attack you cleverly hid the vulgarity by using an “@” rather than an “a” (a vulgarity of a type which, I have it upon good authority, you rarely use). Now, I have no idea if **pricciar** was offended. But I thought it was too much (and more than enough to disuade me from attending one of your pizza parties) and commented on it. As for the music, you are again missing the point. It doesn’t matter whether you knew of my thoughts on music (and I admitted you might not have) - what I said in no way reflected on you. It was in no way a comment on you. It was in no way directed at you. It had absolutely zero to do with you. And yet it was a great personal insult to you. This is what I meant when I said you have to be in the middle of everything, it isn’t all about you Zenster. Thank you for clarifying the Sister Mary Elephant thing. I was thinking it must be an SNL reference (which I rarely see). But Cheech and Chong are way before my time so I’m not surprised I didn’t know it - though **baglady** tells me she has used the name in my presence. On another issue: You mean to tell me that **Demoscrotum** isn’t close enough? I’ll have to work on that. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2000, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/50 "2000-12-15T06:17:16Z")
This may be the point of this thread but you guys need to relax a little. The Dopefests I’ve been to(here in Ireland with American/Euro/Canadian dopers) have all been very relaxed affairs. The party in my house wasn’t organised at all(well a bit but it wasn’t me 🙂 and it was very welcome) it was just a party. Stop analysing stuff and just kick back. I think the thing that makes people uncomfortable with this thread is that is is not the usual "you fucking donkey raping shit eater etc. etc. This is personal which makes it painful to read. Anyway guys have a good time at the party and please give me a shout if you ever make it to this part of the world. OH and what **matt\_mcl** said. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2000, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429/51 "2000-12-15T10:01:14Z")
Zen, I understand about the shyness. But I hope you can realise that going overboard can annoy somepeople, while humouring other people. Obfus, we haven’t had much interaction on the board before, but I have noticed that you will speak your mind when you feel you have to. I admire that, but sometimes it can be better to choose your words carefully (which you have done in this thread.) I won’t pretend to speak on behalf of the B.A.D (considering that I’m not one, to begin with) but I’m sure that they would like as many people there as possible. I hate to see people arguing over things like this. Can the 2 of you try to reach an agreement where you can both go to the dopefest without any ill feeling? I have to agree with Yoj, any time we met up, it was very relaxed and easygoing, everything I expected a meeting to be. In fact, we are planning on going down to Cork, thas about 250 miles, just to meet Spiritus Mundi. but I digress… Anyway, what Matt\_mcl said. (P.s. Obfus, The buttons your wife made for us went down a treat at all the dopefests. Baglady rocks. Just thought I’d stick that in.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-placeholder-for-zenster/45429.md?page=2)