# A Plea for Tolerance on the Eve of War **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2003, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477 "2003-03-19T05:39:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/61 "2003-03-20T11:53:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jacksen9 \* > \*\*And if it happened 30 seconds ago, it couldn’t be reversed. The intention is to prevent future events like those reported. \*\* Quite correct. But _has_ it been happening recently? That’s a simple question, amenable to a simple answer. I didn’t ask the question originally, but I would like to see an answer, one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/62 "2003-03-20T11:54:12Z")
I asked a specific question, too. What makes so many brain-dead liberals think that Saddam and Chemical Ali have unilaterally stopped their murders? Do you have something to say about that, or do you still want to defend the monster? ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/63 "2003-03-20T11:56:01Z")
**Desmostylus** I worry that the more updated info will be provided within the next few hours, days, or weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/64 "2003-03-20T11:58:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jacksen9 \* > \*\*And if it happened 30 seconds ago, it couldn’t be reversed. The intention is to prevent future events like those reported. \*\* I agree that these are atrocities. I do not agree that it is the intention of the Bush Administration to avenge and prevent these atrocities. The plight of the Iraqi people is irrelevent to them. something else is going on here. On the plus side, the Iraqi people might get a break for a year or two from this kind of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/65 "2003-03-20T11:59:05Z")
Just because the web doesn’t have up-to-the-minute documentation of the attrocities of your hero, you are willing to discount years of documented mass murder? How fucking stupid. If you really want an answer to your dumbass question, go to Goodle and type a few keywords: Iraq, torture, murder, rape, and genocide. You can also get a bunch of hits with “branding”. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/66 "2003-03-20T12:04:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*I asked a specific question, too. What makes so many brain-dead liberals think that Saddam and Chemical Ali have unilaterally stopped their murders? Do you have something to say about that, or do you still want to defend the monster? \*\* I haven’t got a clue about brain dead liberals. I suspect that what you would call a liberal and what I would call a liberal are different things anyway. And where do you get the impression that I’m defending Saddam? What I’m asking you to do is answer a specific factual question. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/67 "2003-03-20T12:05:24Z")
Lib, are you reading the same posts I am reading? Hero? I missed that. Come on now. Play fair. Have some coffee. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/68 "2003-03-20T12:07:00Z")
**something else is going on here.** What? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/69 "2003-03-20T12:22:54Z")
> [@](#): > > The man you’re defending Interesting from the guy that goes on, at length, about logic. You posted a claim that he was killing 5,000 - 10,000 people a month that diplomatic efforts would permit to continue to die. I simply asked whether there was any information that that was true, given that nothing in the thread to that point had indicated any such current murders. Now you are accusing me of defending him because I asked for information? I have no problem with the notion of removing Hussein, by force, if necessary. I would prefer to have seen it done with something closer to unanimity from the world community, rather than the “for us or against us” mentality that Bush has imposed on the situation, as I suspect that the current policy will lead to better recruitment posters for al Qaeda and greater troubles in the Mideast. In light of my beliefs, a question as to whether Hussein was _currently_ murdering 5,000 to 10,000 people a month has a bearing on my views of the current action vs continued attempts to get more of the world community to support our actions. Thus, I asked for information regarding the numbers presented. > [@](#): > > Diplomacy? What a joke. He doesn’t give a shit about world opinion. Of course, not. However, he is not the only person in the situation. A diplomatic effort to tie him down to moving and hiding weapons prevents him from distributing them while their discovery by a non-U.S. organization would provide evidence to persuade moderates in the region that the U.S. policy was not simply one of chest-beating or an atempt by the U.S. to exercise world hegemony. Any WMD discovered following the war will now be portrayed by al Qaeda and company as evidence “planted” by the U.S. The decision to go to war, now, may have been correct or it may have been in error, but your rather knee-jerk reaction to my question (which was a simple question and neither a “defense” of Hussein nor a “nitpick” on numbers) is hardly in keeping with the OP’s request that the discussion be kept civil. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/70 "2003-03-20T13:29:31Z")
> [@](#): > > “…brain-dead liberals…” > > “…do you still want to defend the monster?” > > “…the attrocities of your hero…” > > “…you are willing to discount years of documented mass murder? How fucking stupid.” > > …your dumbass question…" ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/71 "2003-03-20T13:32:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jacksen9 \* > \*\*Lib, are you reading the same posts I am reading? Hero? I missed that. Come on now. Play fair. Have some coffee. \*\* That wasn’t to you. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/72 "2003-03-20T13:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by xenophon41 \* > \*\*☹ \*\* Sorry, but I’m just sick of all this bullshit defense of a fucking monster. Maybe he never really did these things. Maybe he changed his ways this year. Maybe people who live under him don’t suffer as much as you think. Jackal vomit. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/73 "2003-03-20T13:36:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*I haven’t got a clue about brain dead liberals. I suspect that what you would call a liberal and what I would call a liberal are different things anyway. > > And where do you get the impression that I’m defending Saddam? > > What I’m asking you to do is answer a specific factual question. \*\* I asked you to answer one, too. Tune in to C-Span when they replay the interview with Entifadh Qanbar, Director of the Washington Office of the Iraqi National Congress for some updated info on Saddam. You’ll particularly enjoy the stories about the plastic shredders. When he puts people in them head-first, they die quickly. But when he puts people in them feet-first, they die screaming. Of course, you’ll probably think he’s lying. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/74 "2003-03-20T13:46:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Sorry, but I’m just sick of all this bullshit defense of a fucking monster. Maybe he never really did these things. Maybe he changed his ways this year. Maybe people who live under him don’t suffer as much as you think. Jackal vomit. \*\* and fucking answer the question - just who the fuck here is defending him? no one I saw. like I said to **milo** - exageratting this awful situation is hardly necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/75 "2003-03-20T13:47:03Z")
**Lib** , you were asked a simple question by **tomndebb**. I repeated the question. Answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/76 "2003-03-20T13:49:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry, but I’m just sick of all this bullshit defense of a fucking monster. **Tom~** was right; for someone so expert in logics, you’re being a real jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/77 "2003-03-20T13:54:53Z")
I have a lot of respect for you, **Lib** , but I also don’t see anyone here who would weep if Sadddam was dragged through the streets by his heels. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/78 "2003-03-20T13:56:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*That wasn’t to you. \*\* I realized that. I fielded it anyway. Just thought I would point out that I did not read anywhere that Desmostylus was making Hussein out to be a hero. Did you want me to just stay out of it? If so… say so. Otherwise I will continue with my prolific posting. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/79 "2003-03-20T13:58:46Z")
1,200,000 divided by 20 divided by 12 is 5,000. 2,500,000 divided by 20 divided by 12 is 10,416. I said between 5,000 and 10,000 per month. The fixation on the accuracy of this number is just mind-numbing considering we’re talking about Saddam Hussein. Don’t blame me when you’ve declared your priorities. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477/80 "2003-03-20T14:01:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jacksen9 \* > \*\*I realized that. I fielded it anyway. Just thought I would point out that I did not read anywhere that Desmostylus was making Hussein out to be a hero. > > Did you want me to just stay out of it? If so… say so. Otherwise I will continue with my prolific posting. > 🙂 \*\* I don’t mind your posting. I just can’t get over the fact that these guys are suggesting that Saddam might have reformed this year, and that numbers over the past decade are irrelevant. That just is so fucking incredible. Despicable. Unbelievable. They don’t give a shit. “You haven’t answered my stupid question!” “You’re being illogical!” Damn. Just plain damn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-for-tolerance-on-the-eve-of-war/162477.md?page=5)