# A plea to Trump supporters and conservatives in general **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197 "2016-11-09T14:03:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/21 "2016-11-09T16:59:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > For example, someone may be perfectly homophilic, and still think that the Supreme Court decision legalizing gay marriage was flawed. Not because of the content, but because they don’t agree with judicial activism or the logical stretches the SCOTUS made to reach their decision. > > That doesn’t make a person homophobic or bigoted- it just means they didn’t agree with the decision on certain grounds. But if they then make or join an effort to have the decision or its effects reversed or circumvented with the result that the marriages are de-legalized or marginalized, I _ **will** _ say they are NOT acting out of good will. Seeking legalistic purity at the expense of real human suffering is no virtue. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/22 "2016-11-09T17:13:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Meh. > > Speaking for myself I have pointed many times that the problem is that indeed the racist elements are tolerated \*\*too \*\*much. > > Many of the reasonings you and \*\*Bricker \*\*are using were used for decades to defend Sheriff Joe Arpaio; yes, the ones making those excuses are more likely than not to not be racists. But again, it is a defense that ends up white washing the behavior of many in power that are racist. > > The good news locally is that Arpaio was defeated because many Republicans in Arizona do know now how insane was to defend his vindictiveness and racial profiling that caused so many losses to the state by defending his ideology. It is not a coincidence too that both Senators including the reelected McCain continue to be against Trump and were also against Arpaio. The point here is that what \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*pleads is not really such an outstanding request, because even a red state can do it. I’m not disagreeing with \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*, so much as I’m agreeing with \*\*Bricker \*\* that far too many people are painted with the racist, misogynist, sexist, etc… brush merely because of a difference of opinion, not because they’re actually those things. All we hear is about how all Trump supporters are poor, opiate-addled Appalachian hillbillies, or various sorts of ignorant, rural racists who pine for the 1950s, etc… None of the people I know who have come out as Trump voters fall into those categories- most of them are white, suburban, upper-middle class people who put a LOT of stock in tradition values and personal integrity and aren’t too concerned about political correctness. That doesn’t make them racist, sexist, etc… they just disagree with people who prioritize other things. I’ll say this - I voted against Trump twice- in the Republican primary and in the general election. But I don’t particularly like the overwhelmingly negative portrayal of Trump voters either; it’s inaccurate and fairly condescending, as if nobody with a brain could have actually voted for him. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/23 "2016-11-09T17:18:09Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I don’t understand how you can say that. “Mexicans are rapists”, “Miss Piggy”, making fun of handicapped reporters, etc.? 😕 The first is something he never said. The second is him being a petty oversensitive person. The third is him being a jerk. None are examples of bigotry or misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/24 "2016-11-09T17:38:59Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’m not disagreeing with \*\*iiandyiiii \*\*, so much as I’m agreeing with \*\*Bricker \*\* that far too many people are painted with the racist, misogynist, sexist, etc… brush merely because of a difference of opinion, not because they’re actually those things. > [@bump](#): > > I’ll say this - I voted against Trump twice- in the Republican primary and in the general election. But I don’t particularly like the overwhelmingly negative portrayal of Trump voters either; it’s inaccurate and fairly condescending, as if nobody with a brain could have actually voted for him. Uh, again speaking for myself I also pointed before that most Republican voters are not racists, they are however very tolerant of them so as to get their votes in the close elections. It may be smart, but it is giving us people like Trump who cuddles with more of them in the open or that gets propaganda from racist sources that he used. Unless I see any evidence against it we have to assume Trump will continue to rely on very unsavory sources, that are also ignorant and conspiracy minded. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/25 "2016-11-09T17:44:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I favor Voter ID laws, because I believe them to be a legitimate exercise of state power and a valid method to help ensure voter confidence in the results of elections. I agree with your plea, but you have to know that actual voter fraud is _de minimus_ and minority voter suppression is a very real and significant thing. Thus, it seems to me that calls for Voter ID are just calls for minority voter suppression. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/26 "2016-11-09T17:45:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I will try. I don’t think I’ve ever done this, though (and we’ve had detailed conversations about voter ID). > > Is my plea invalid? To the contrary – your plea is quite valid, and I will take it to heart. If I see something, I will say something. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/27 "2016-11-09T17:46:08Z")
If it makes you feel any better, this conservative might never vote Republican again. Most Republican voters are not such bad people, but they’re supporting an organization that has shown that ideology trumps truth and victory trumps morality. As a party, they are willing to tolerate and even support evil if it lets them win. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/28 "2016-11-09T17:48:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I agree with your plea, but you have to know that actual voter fraud is _de minimus_ and minority voter suppression is a very real and significant thing. > > Thus, it seems to me that calls for Voter ID are just calls for minority voter suppression. Well, that didn’t last long. In my view, Voter ID laws (done right, with Indiana as a prime example – plenty of time to acquire ID, ID offered at no cost, affidavit options that are available in the event original documents cannot be found) are prudent and sensible exercises of verification for voting. This view does not arise because I wish to suppress minority votes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/29 "2016-11-09T17:49:51Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > If it makes you feel any better, this conservative might never vote Republican again. Most Republican voters are not such bad people, but they’re supporting an organization that has shown that ideology trumps truth and victory trumps morality. As a party, they are willing to tolerate and even support evil if it lets them win. See what I mean, folks? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/30 "2016-11-09T18:17:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, that didn’t last long. > > In my view, Voter ID laws (done right, with Indiana as a prime example – plenty of time to acquire ID, ID offered at no cost, affidavit options that are available in the event original documents cannot be found) are prudent and sensible exercises of verification for voting. This view does not arise because I wish to suppress minority votes. I accept that you dont. But currently, on your house, how set for you for defenses vs mountain lion attacks? Got a lightning rod? Meteor defense shield? See, altho i see the point of “prudent and sensible” defenses, one must take into account the rarity of the attack. Due to the number of voters in the USA and the number of verified fraudulent voters, you would be more “prudent and sensible” if you wore cougar proof suits. Wasting time, effort and taxpayer dollars on a non-issues is not " prudent" nor “sensible”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/31 "2016-11-09T18:24:53Z")
I’m pretty sure **Bricker** has said that he philosophically believes that it shouldn’t be easy to vote. For anyone. He thinks (IIRC) that democracy works better when only highly motivated (and presumably therefore highly informed) people vote. I disagree, but I think his position is devoid of bigotry. But if I may, I respectfully request that this hijack cease or go elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/32 "2016-11-09T18:25:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A counter-plea: to you, and other liberals. > [@dracoi](#): > > If it makes you feel any better, this **conservative** … > [@Bricker](#): > > See what I mean, folks? Not really, no. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/33 "2016-11-09T18:34:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I accept that you dont. > > But currently, on your house, how set for you for defenses vs mountain lion attacks? Got a lightning rod? Meteor defense shield? > > See, altho i see the point of “prudent and sensible” defenses, one must take into account the rarity of the attack. Due to the number of voters in the USA and the number of verified fraudulent voters, you would be more “prudent and sensible” if you wore cougar proof suits. > > Wasting time, effort and taxpayer dollars on a non-issues is not " prudent" nor “sensible”. Do you agree that the difference in opinion as to whether voter ID is a good idea, or not, is based on a different understanding of what is “prudent and sensible” and not racism? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/34 "2016-11-09T18:45:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you agree that the difference in opinion as to whether voter ID is a good idea, or not, is based on a different understanding of what is “prudent and sensible” and not racism? With Bricker? Yes. With Karl Rove?- 100% election manipulation. with 2/3rds of the GOP? - racism. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/35 "2016-11-09T18:50:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Not really, no. Me neither. I mean, that’s a conservative republican talking, not a liberal democrat. What the hell? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/36 "2016-11-09T19:00:52Z")
ETA: honoring iiandyiii’s request (to end the hijack). I’ll also do my best to honor his other request, to discourage racism when / where I encounter it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/37 "2016-11-09T19:04:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > IIRC voter ID laws are supported by a significant portion of Democrats as well. [Gallup had it at 63% of Democrats supporting a photo ID requirement a few months ago](http://www.gallup.com/poll/194741/four-five-americans-support-voter-laws-early-voting.aspx). > > Your racism argument is wrong. > > To throw you a bone, I’ll concede that the Karl Roves of the world almost certainly perceive the partisan advantages of such laws. You dont think 2/3rd of the GOP is racist? or close to it? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/38 "2016-11-09T19:04:41Z")
“You hear that, Jethro? This here city fella says to watch out, 'cause there might be BIGOTS and ZEENERPHOBES around! You seen anything like that?” “I sure ain’t, Joe Bob! I tell you what, though, I’ll sure keep my eyes peeled and let you know if I come across any! Heh heh!” “Heh! Heheh! Heh!” “Hee hee hee HAW HAW HAW HAW _HAW HAW HAW HAW!!!_” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/39 "2016-11-09T19:06:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > ETA: honoring iiandyiii’s request (to end the hijack). I’ll also do my best to honor his other request, to discourage racism when / where I encounter it. Thank you! You get a hug. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/40 "2016-11-09T19:12:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You dont think 2/3rd of the GOP is racist? or close to it? Did you read **HurricaneDitka** ’s cite? If supporting voter ID makes you a racist, then two thirds of the Democrats are racist. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197.md?page=3)