# A plea to Trump supporters and conservatives in general **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197 "2016-11-09T14:03:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/41 "2016-11-09T19:13:47Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Exactly. That’s why I laughed out loud when I saw the thread asking if the SDMB is a liberal echo chamber. ANYWHERE that does what you describe is a liberal echo chamber, by definition. > > There’s a real tendency around here to vilify anyone who differs from the norm as any number of pejoratives- racist, sexist, bigoted, fascist, etc… when that’s not true at all. > > For example, someone may be perfectly homophilic, and still think that the Supreme Court decision legalizing gay marriage was flawed. Not because of the content, but because they don’t agree with judicial activism or the logical stretches the SCOTUS made to reach their decision. > > That doesn’t make a person homophobic or bigoted- it just means they didn’t agree with the decision on certain grounds. > > I actually think that there were a whole lot more people who voted for Trump because they didn’t like Bill and Hillary Clinton and found them more personally odious than they found Trump, and figured that at least with Trump, all that stuff is out in the open, while the Clintons are perceived as having a history of being secretive and sleazy. > > But around here, that gets these people called racist, fascist, sexist and bigoted, when those things probably had nothing to do with their decision. Exactly. I don’t think the lesson will be learned though. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/42 "2016-11-09T19:24:41Z")
> [@bump](#): > > There’s a real tendency around here to vilify anyone who differs from the norm as any number of pejoratives- racist, sexist, bigoted, fascist, etc… when that’s not true at all. > > For example, someone may be perfectly homophilic, and still think that the Supreme Court decision legalizing gay marriage was flawed. Not because of the content, but because they don’t agree with judicial activism or the logical stretches the SCOTUS made to reach their decision. > > That doesn’t make a person homophobic or bigoted- it just means they didn’t agree with the decision on certain grounds. I think there are several parts to this. [ul] [li]Some people who most strongly support things like gay marriage have a worldview in which they see racism, sexism, and homophobia as being extremely strong and pervasive forces in society, and this makes them more inclined to see this qualities in those who they oppose.[/li][li]People have a tendency to find arguments in favor of their own positions extremely compelling and convincing, and the opposite for positions they oppose. This makes them predisposed to assume that people holding alternative positions are motivated by evil.[/li][li]In arguments, it’s easier to “win” the argument against racism, sexism and homophobia then to win against logical arguments.[/li][li]Lastly, it’s a way for SJWs to feel superior, and acquire some cheap grace.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/43 "2016-11-09T19:40:16Z")
People who can’t accept that they are wrong are bad people. I have explained why they are wrong. If they can’t accept that - do the math. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/44 "2016-11-09T20:15:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Did you read **HurricaneDitka** ’s cite? If supporting voter ID makes you a racist, then two thirds of the Democrats are racist. Did you read my post? I didnt say that \* supporting voter ID makes you a racist\* I said that _racists support voter ID._ [https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet](https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet) \*There is no credible evidence that in-person impersonation voter fraud – the only type of fraud that photo IDs could prevent – is even a minor problem. Proponents of voter ID laws have failed to demonstrate that individual, in -person voter fraud is even a minor problem anywhere in the country. Multiple studies have found that almost all cases of in-person impersonation voter “fraud” are the result of a voter making an honest mistake, and that even these mistakes are extremely infrequent. It is important, instead, to focus on both expanding the franchise and ending practices which actually threaten the integrity of the elections, such as improper purges of voters, voter harassment, and distribution of false information about when and where to vote. None of these issues, however, are addressed or can be resolved with a photo ID requirement. NO ELIGIBLE CITIZEN SHOULD HAVE TO PAY TO VOTE Requiring voters to obtain an ID in order to vote is tantamount to a poll tax. Although some states issue IDs for free, the birth certificates, passports, or other documents required to obtain a government-issued ID cost money, and many Americans simply cannot afford to pay for them. In addition, states incur sizable costs when providing IDs to voters who do not have them. Given the financial strain many states already are experiencing, this is an unnecessary allocation of taxpayer dollars. VOTER ID LAWS ARE DISCRIMINATORY Voter ID laws have a disproportionate and unfair impact on low-income individuals, racial and ethnic minority voters, students, senior citizens, voters with disabilities and others who do not have a government-issued ID or the money to acquire one. Research shows that 11% of US citizens – or more than 21 million Americans – do not have government-issued photo identification. As many as 25% of African American citizens of voting age do not have a government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of their white counterparts. 18% of Americans over the age of 65 (or 6 million senior citizens) do not have a government-issued photo ID. In 2008, it was widely reported that Indiana’s voter ID law disfranchised 12 nuns who were trying to vote in the primary election. The nuns were all over 80 years old, all had a history of voting in past elections, and none of them drove. Their limited mobility made it difficult for them to get an ID.\* ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/45 "2016-11-09T20:23:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Did you read my post? I didnt say that \* supporting voter ID makes you a racist\* I said that _racists support voter ID._ So two thirds of Republicans who are racist support voter ID. But the two thirds of Democrats who do the same aren’t? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/46 "2016-11-09T20:40:33Z")
For pete’s sake, stop with the hijack already! This was supposed to be a group-hug and reassurance thread! ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/47 "2016-11-09T21:34:26Z")
[Moderating] Please take the Voter ID hijack to another thread. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/48 "2016-11-09T21:44:01Z")
Another surprise but a much more pleasant one. I for one welcome our new anti-hijack overlord. Congrats, **Bone**. I will certainly comply. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/49 "2016-11-09T21:45:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Please be alert for a dark element among Trump supporters – an element driven by bigotry and xenophobia. I hope it’s much less significant of an element than I worry it is, and I hope Trump supporters’ (and Trump himself) are right that this is barely more than a few assholes in their basements. But just in case, please be alert for these folks – they (white supremacists/nationalists and their ilk) have done by far the most harm to America of any group. If I’m right, they’re more than an insignificant fraction (how large I don’t know), and they will move forward with their disgusting agenda anyway they can. > > But I hope my worries are unfounded. My first day here, and I have to say, I’m not feeling the love. You call me a bigot and a xenophobic. This is because I exercised my right to vote for the candidate of my choice for my reasons. Maybe the name calling and accusations should be turned down a notch. I don’t agree with Hillary and those that supported her but I never felt the need to make general accusations against them or resort to name calling. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/50 "2016-11-09T21:54:58Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > My first day here, and I have to say, I’m not feeling the love. You call me a bigot and a xenophobic. This is because I exercised my right to vote for the candidate of my choice for my reasons. Maybe the name calling and accusations should be turned down a notch. I don’t agree with Hillary and those that supported her but I never felt the need to make general accusations against them or resort to name calling. How did I call you a bigot? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/51 "2016-11-09T21:59:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How did I call you a bigot? I don’t think you called him a bigot. However, the notion that you called him a bigot very closely parallels the notion - asserted by someone in this thread - that Trump said “Mexicans are rapists”. Are you comfortable with the notion that Trump made that statement? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/52 "2016-11-09T21:59:58Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > My first day here, and I have to say, I’m not feeling the love. You call me a bigot and a xenophobic. This is because I exercised my right to vote for the candidate of my choice for my reasons. Maybe the name calling and accusations should be turned down a notch. I don’t agree with Hillary and those that supported her but I never felt the need to make general accusations against them or resort to name calling. Hey, I know several close freinds who are Trump voters, who are neither bigoted nor xenophobic, they happen to be single issue gun voters. ☹ \*Many \*Trump voters are neither bigoted or xenophobic. But those votes put him in the WhiteHouse. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/53 "2016-11-09T22:01:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t think you called him a bigot. > > However, the notion that you called him a bigot very closely parallels the notion - asserted by someone in this thread - that Trump said “Mexicans are rapists”. Are you comfortable with the notion that Trump made that statement? [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/16/trump\_mexico\_not\_sending\_us\_their\_best\_criminals\_drug\_dealers\_and\_rapists\_are\_crossing\_border.html](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/16/trump_mexico_not_sending_us_their_best_criminals_drug_dealers_and_rapists_are_crossing_border.html) _When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists._ ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/54 "2016-11-09T22:11:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How did I call you a bigot? … “Be on the lookout for Trump supporters…” I didn’t go out and campaign for the guy, but my vote went Republican. It sounded like you were calling everyone that supported him in some way a bigot, etc. And, I don’t live in the basement 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/55 "2016-11-09T22:13:19Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > I don’t agree with Hillary and those that supported her but I never felt the need to make general accusations against them or resort to name calling. No, you just elected a guy to do it for you. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/56 "2016-11-09T22:16:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [Trump: Mexico Not Sending Us Their Best; Criminals, Drug Dealers And Rapists Are Crossing Border | Video | RealClearPolitics](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/06/16/trump_mexico_not_sending_us_their_best_criminals_drug_dealers_and_rapists_are_crossing_border.html) > > _When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists._ So he wasn’t talking about “Mexicans”, he was talking about the Mexicans who come here illegally. And he wasn’t saying all Mexicans who come here, only a lot of them. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/57 "2016-11-09T22:21:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, you just elected a guy to do it for you. I voted for the candidate of my choosing, as far as I know, that’s how our system works. I am not going to, nor do I feel the need to get into a long dissertation on why I chose him over her, but rest assured it’s not because I think he’s a bully. And, it’s not because I approve of bullying in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/58 "2016-11-09T22:27:10Z")
You don’t much disapprove of it either, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/59 "2016-11-09T22:29:04Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > … “Be on the lookout for Trump supporters…” I didn’t go out and campaign for the guy, but my vote went Republican. It sounded like you were calling everyone that supported him in some way a bigot, etc. And, I don’t live in the basement 😊 Re-read op, please. “Please be alert for a dark element among Trump supporters” This states that the OP believes that, among trump supporters, is hiding (and sometimes not really hiding), people who are bigots. He in no way calls all Trump supporters bigots. He in fact, asks Trump supporters who are not bigots (because he assumes that’s the majority), to keep an eye out against such bigotry in their own ranks. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/60 "2016-11-09T22:33:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > So he wasn’t talking about “Mexicans”, he was talking about the Mexicans who come here illegally. And he wasn’t saying all Mexicans who come here, only a lot of them. Nice. So you’re not a bigot as long as you can find at least one example to make a statement true. So… if I say Republicans are bigots, then by your logic aren’t I right? David Duke is a bigot and a Republican. There you go. Republicans are bigots. I’ll bet they’re rapists too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197.md?page=4)