# A plea to Trump supporters and conservatives in general **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197 "2016-11-09T14:03:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/61 "2016-11-09T22:37:00Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Nice. So you’re not a bigot as long as you can find at least one example to make a statement true. > > So… if I say Republicans are bigots, then by your logic aren’t I right? David Duke is a bigot and a Republican. There you go. Republicans are bigots. I’ll bet they’re rapists too. I didn’t claim Trump’s statement was true. Only that it was not bigoted. Context is everything here. Trump was making the point that illegal immigration from Mexico is harmful because it contains a disproportionate percentage of criminals. Whether or not this is correct, it’s not the same thing as saying “Mexicans are rapists”. Much in the same way the OP is not the same thing as saying “Trump supporters are bigots”. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/62 "2016-11-09T22:41:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Much in the same way the OP is not the same thing as saying “Trump supporters are bigots”. They are rapists, they are racists, they are misogynists. Some, I assume, are good people. Do you think that Trump supporters would be happy with that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/63 "2016-11-09T23:00:02Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t think you called him a bigot. > > However, the notion that you called him a bigot very closely parallels the notion - asserted by someone in this thread - that Trump said “Mexicans are rapists”. Are you comfortable with the notion that Trump made that statement? No – IIRC, he said that Mexico sends rapists to America. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/64 "2016-11-09T23:01:28Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > … “Be on the lookout for Trump supporters…” I didn’t go out and campaign for the guy, but my vote went Republican. It sounded like you were calling everyone that supported him in some way a bigot, etc. And, I don’t live in the basement 😊 Who said “Be on the lookout for Trump supporters…”? What post are you quoting? I have no idea where you’re getting this that I said, and I’d like to know specifically the words that I posted that you have an issue with. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/65 "2016-11-09T23:38:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Did you read **HurricaneDitka** ’s cite? If supporting voter ID makes you a racist, then two thirds of the Democrats are racist. > > Regards, > Shodan No, the Democrats only think that because… Koch brothers. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/66 "2016-11-09T23:59:14Z")
I’d just like to point out that while Trump ran with an R after his name, he’s not a conservative. He has shown a history of supporting very liberal ideals such as eminent domain (which is anathema to conservatives who believe in property rights). He did outwardly champion many conservative issues, such as curbing illegal immigration and supporting gun rights, but his proposed solutions include increasing the size of government and its power which is also anathema to conservatives. Many of his supporters are disaffected Americans who just want someone very different in power and think he’ll help them with their personal situation rather than people voting for ideals. Of course there are also people who supported him just to keep Hillary out of power. Many conservatives can’t stand him, which was pretty evident during the Republican primary race. And others were reluctant to support him even after nomination (and many still are even now I’m sure). Conservatives weren’t givens very good choices this election. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/67 "2016-11-10T00:13:50Z")
Look, let’s be crystal clear. Trump’s rhetoric absolutely was something that would sound more welcoming to a racist than anything said by Clinton during this campaign. It’s blind to not acknowledge that. But that doesn’t allow any conclusions about how many of his supporters are racists. And during the 2008 primaries, Clinton’s supporters in rural Pennsylvania refused to vote for “one of them,” referring to the dark-skinned Obama. That is true, and yet does not transform Clinton supporters into racists. It means that in that specific instance, the ugliness of racism found a more welcoming berth with one candidate than another. Period. And it falls to everyone, but conservatives especially, to call out that kind of garbage if we see it, because liberals may be handicapped by the suggestion that their attack is a partisan one. That’s equally clear, and it’s something I am happy to be alert for. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/68 "2016-11-10T00:13:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You don’t much disapprove of it either, apparently. Why do you act as though you know me? You seem to be judging me. Since I’m sensing so much disapproval from you, I would guess you most likely voted Hillary or didn’t vote at all. Yet, I’m not posting snarky things about the choice you made. And, you are worried about Trump being in office? If this is an example of the way Hillary supporters treat those that differ with them, it’s that side with the problem. I just posted originally to this thread because I thought the original post was making generalizations about conservatives that aren’t true. I’m sorry I just included the line about if this is how Hillary supporters… That makes me just like you, making unfair generalizations because I have the intelligence to know that’s not true, that people had good intentions with the choices they made. I’m guessing now there will be a post about me not being so intelligent because you disagree with my vote. Can we just agree to disagree? 😊 ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/69 "2016-11-10T00:29:11Z")
Republicans shouldn’t question anything. Turmp got a lot of political capital out of questioning Obama’s birth. He got tremendous support for his campaign rhetoric about immigrants and Muslims. It was up to liberals to prove him wrong and they couldn’t. All their arguments were soundly rejected. So, as democracy logic goes, it’s liberals who are wrong, not Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/70 "2016-11-10T00:35:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Look, let’s be crystal clear. > > Trump’s rhetoric absolutely was something that would sound more welcoming to a racist than anything said by Clinton during this campaign. It’s blind to not acknowledge that. > > But that doesn’t allow any conclusions about how many of his supporters are racists. Let’s be even more crystal clear. Republican/conservative policies are more appealing to racists than Democratic ones. It’s blind not to acknowledge that. But the rest of your post holds in regards to this as well. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/71 "2016-11-10T01:20:44Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > My first day here, and I have to say, I’m not feeling the love. Let me be the first to apologize. As I’m sure you already know from your long period of lurking before registering an account today, our primary objective here is administering love. Used to be the tagline on the masthead, in fact, before they went with the “fighting ignorance” thing— over my _strenuous_ objections, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/72 "2016-11-10T01:28:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Please be alert for a dark element among Trump supporters – an element driven by bigotry and xenophobia. I hope it’s much less significant of an element than I worry it is, and I hope Trump supporters’ (and Trump himself) are right that this is barely more than a few assholes in their basements. But just in case, please be alert for these folks – they (white supremacists/nationalists and their ilk) have done by far the most harm to America of any group. If I’m right, they’re more than an insignificant fraction (how large I don’t know), and they will move forward with their disgusting agenda anyway they can. > > But I hope my worries are unfounded. so to be clear you don’t want Republicans to do things like insisting we segregate by race at college dorms, block people who don’t match our race from free access to public spaces or block traffic and businesses until our demands are met. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/73 "2016-11-10T02:09:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it is valid. And Republicans are going to have to be the ones who take responsibility for repudiating violence, as the GOP did with the John Birch Society. And we (the GOP) are the ones who have to do it, partly because there are so many accusations of racism against us from the Left that it is hard to take them all seriously. > > Can I make a plea in return? There has been a certain amount of condemnation of GOP supporters talking about “Second Amendment solutions” and targeting and things like that, because it is going to be interpreted as encouraging nutcases to engage in violence. If that condemnation is justified, ISTM that there is also a non-zero amount of rhetoric coming from the left that can be seen as equally encouraging of violence against Trump. Of course almost all of it is hot air, just as it is coming from the Right. But… > > There was discussion about the danger of assassinations of Obama, back in the day, because he is black. Nothing like that happened (thank God). There are, I believe, probably as many dangerously unstable people enraged at Trump as there were dangerously unstable racists who wanted to kill our first black President. > > Both sides need to call out their extreme fringe elements, and never make excuses for them. Because Trump is (God help us) the duly elected President of the United States. We need to deal with that. But we damn well better deal with it in a way that honors the Constitution of the greatest nation on earth. If we lose that, we lose everything. > It’s a cliché to say that the people have decided and the country must come together. But clichés are often true. > > I’m not talking about saying “the Republicans tried to block everything Obama did so the Democrats are going to do the same” or “we aren’t going to vote to confirm anyone Trump nominates to the bench”. That’s just politics. > > But, that having been said, you are correct. Islam is not our enemy. Muslims are not bad people. Blacks, whites, Asians, Hispanics, are all equal before the law, and are entitled to the equal protection of the law. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. > > Regards, > Shodan [I repeat](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10422061&postcount=133), Shodan’s a gentleman. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/74 "2016-11-10T02:15:46Z")
I must agree that \*\*Shodan \*\*has spoken quite wisely on that matter. Well while I’m here, an elaboration of my own on the thread plea: I have encountered a surprsing amount of people in my various social networks who are not just in shock and disbelief or sad or angry. They are positively, utterly TERRIFIED with paralyzing dread that their doom is sealed. Partly, that policies will be implemented that will be harmful to them and not just in the pocketbook but in the sense of their freedom and personal integrity, but, partly also that **this will embolden the OP-described “dark element” to declare open season on them** in everyday life and not over stuff like baking or not baking a damn cake or providing a trigger warning, but major stuff like firings and evictions and discrimination and harassment all the way to actual violent assault. At the very least, the community on the winning side should be clear it did not constitute license for the “dark elements” to feel unleashed to do their thing. And **Patx2** , I’m sorry but if you’re going to take offense at someone saying “Please be alert for a dark element among Trump supporters” and claim that is calling you a bigot by association, that is not going to gain traction here. The OP was worded in quite acceptable terms, challenging the supporters to be on the lookout for those who’d use their movement as “cover”, and the proposal can be debated and argued – but it was not the OP that laid general accusations of bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Jungian\_Camisole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@Jungian\_Camisole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jungian_Camisole)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/75 "2016-11-10T03:13:45Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > [I repeat](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10422061&postcount=133), Shodan’s a gentleman. I agree with this. I am unable to post as much as I would like, but I do read when I have some time. Shodan reminds me of my husband. My Republican husband. Sure, they can snark hard, and both have a low tolerance for what they consider bullshit. But I know that my husband adores my Democratic ass to pieces; he is fiercely loyal to those he loves regardless of, well, anything. He doesn’t give a shit about race, social class, sexuality, or anything else. If you are a decent person, that’s all he needs to know. He voted for President Elect Trump. Did I like it? To be honest, I did not. But I do understand why he did. I felt that the our country was doing well. He thinks it can be better. It is my hopeful belief that there are more people in the Republican party that are like Shodan and my Sweet Baboo than the assjackets who get all of the media attention. Because, seriously. This partisan shit is becoming exhausting. Find common ground and work out the differences. This is something that our elected officials used to be able to accomplish. If my husband and I can do it, then so can the rest of the USA, dammit! P.S. We are not James Carville and Mary Matalin. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/76 "2016-11-10T03:57:20Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Echoing Bricker’s comment, I would also observe that I haven’t seen anything Trump has said which I would regard as bigoted, misogynistic or the like. But this seems to be how these things are universally portrayed. > > The more expansive your definition of these terms is, the harder it’s going to be to avoid finding them. [This now infamous example](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-bush-transcript-20161007-snap-htmlstory.html) doesn’t really involve expanding anyone’s traditional definition of misogyny: [QUOTE=President-elect Donald Trump in 2005, when he was 59 years old] Trump: No, no. Nancy. No this was— And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.’ I took her out furniture– I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look. … Trump: Yeah, that’s her, with the gold. I’ve got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. I just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Unidentified voice: Whatever you want. Trump: Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything. [/QUOTE] I remember hearing an apology that minimized this as “locker room” talk, but not a single word was uttered about the brazen arrogance and entitlement to treat women however he wanted whenever he wanted. Trump also has a long history of [misogynistic comments](http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/08/politics/trump-on-howard-stern/) with Howard Stern that are a lot more comparable to locker room talk than the 2005 tape. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/77 "2016-11-10T05:15:02Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > Why do you act as though you know me? You seem to be judging me. Since I’m sensing so much disapproval from you, I would guess you most likely voted Hillary or didn’t vote at all. Yet, I’m not posting snarky things about the choice you made. And, you are worried about Trump being in office? If this is an example of the way Hillary supporters treat those that differ with them, it’s that side with the problem. I just posted originally to this thread because I thought the original post was making generalizations about conservatives that aren’t true. I’m sorry I just included the line about if this is how Hillary supporters… That makes me just like you, making unfair generalizations because I have the intelligence to know that’s not true, that people had good intentions with the choices they made. I’m guessing now there will be a post about me not being so intelligent because you disagree with my vote. Can we just agree to disagree? 😊 I don’t know you. I know the person you put into the highest office of the country, though, and supporting him doesn’t fit well with your claims of not supporting bullies, and not liking bigotry. At the very least, you’re okay enough with those things to support them so long as they’re not directed at you, personally, so long as there’s some other payoff for you in it. ---
**Author:** ![salmo89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@salmo89](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salmo89)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/78 "2016-11-10T05:19:10Z")
Hi all! Someone can help me here please?? :smack:[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19768711#post19768711](http://hiphopstyle.freeforumzone.com/d/11326297/Testo-Salmo-Don-Medell%C3%ACn-Hellvisback-Platinum-/discussione.aspx) Thank you!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/79 "2016-11-10T05:20:14Z")
while I was not a Trump supporter, but rather one of the last conservative Dems (well former Dem when my registration change goes thru) and voted Hillary, I want a Trump presidency to work out. I didn’t oppose him because I had some notion that all or even most of his supporters are racist; I opposed him because I didn’t like his mentality about things; being a shoddy salesman, etc. However, some elements of the alt-right did kind of hurt him with me. But he’s POTUS elect now. I would love for Trump to be a POTUS with as many neo-Nazi fans as Bush, Reagan, etc. had: _next to zero_. He has a few more than zero than I’d like. One way to change that would be to [spread this](http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/neo-nazis-publish-list-of-donald-trumps-jewish-cabal/2016/11/09/): this will help demoralize neo-Nazis and show them Trump doesn’t see Jews as they do. It could also help Trump appeal to, and thus seek out more mainstream people. And keep our country strong, you know, and make America great again. ---
**Author:** ![salmo89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@salmo89](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salmo89)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/80 "2016-11-10T05:27:09Z")
Hi all! Someone can help me here please?? :smack:[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19768711#post19768711](http://hiphopstyle.freeforumzone.com/d/11326297/Testo-Salmo-Don-Medell%C3%ACn-Hellvisback-Platinum-/discussione.aspx) Thank you!! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197.md?page=5)