# A plea to Trump supporters and conservatives in general **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197 "2016-11-09T14:03:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/81 "2016-11-10T05:28:17Z")
> [@salmo89](#): > > Hi all! Someone can help me here please?? :smack:[broken link] > Thank you!! 🙂 This is a bullshit spam link and I reported it. Folks, don’t click on it. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/82 "2016-11-10T05:29:37Z")
It is a source of great anxiety to me, that a great deal of the world’s affairs, America’s economy, the success of Russian and Chinese aggression, the fate of political parties, etc…can all depend on what is happening inside one man’s head, specifically Donald J. Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/83 "2016-11-10T05:45:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It is a source of great anxiety to me, that a great deal of the world’s affairs, America’s economy, the success of Russian and Chinese aggression, the fate of political parties, etc…can all depend on what is happening inside one man’s head, specifically Donald J. Trump. He’s the president, not the emperor. He doesn’t have **THAT** much power. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/84 "2016-11-10T11:54:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I favor Voter ID laws … For holding this stance, I have been assailed on this very board as a racist and a bigot, a self-hating Hispanic, and a raft of other insults that are not accurate. Cite? I know you’ve been accused of ignorance, hypocrisy, and putting partisanship ahead of civil rights but I recall no accusations against you of racism, bigotry, self-hating, nor other inaccurate insults. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/85 "2016-11-10T12:52:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > so to be clear you don’t want Republicans to do things like insisting we segregate by race at college dorms, block people who don’t match our race from free access to public spaces or block traffic and businesses until our demands are met. What does any of this have to do with what I asked? If you want to discuss this topic, please start a new thread. My plea was for Trump supporters and conservatives to please be wary for a dark element among the supporters of Trump. You can ignore this if you wish. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/86 "2016-11-10T14:29:42Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I must agree that \*\*Shodan \*\*has spoken quite wisely on that matter. > > Well while I’m here, an elaboration of my own on the thread plea: > > I have encountered a surprsing amount of people in my various social networks who are not just in shock and disbelief or sad or angry. > > They are positively, utterly TERRIFIED with paralyzing dread that their doom is sealed. Partly, that policies will be implemented that will be harmful to them and not just in the pocketbook but in the sense of their freedom and personal integrity, but, partly also that **this will embolden the OP-described “dark element” to declare open season on them** in everyday life and not over stuff like baking or not baking a damn cake or providing a trigger warning, but major stuff like firings and evictions and discrimination and harassment all the way to actual violent assault. > > At the very least, the community on the winning side should be clear it did not constitute license for the “dark elements” to feel unleashed to do their thing. > > And **Patx2** , I’m sorry but if you’re going to take offense at someone saying “Please be alert for a dark element among Trump supporters” and claim that is calling you a bigot by association, that is not going to gain traction here. The OP was worded in quite acceptable terms, challenging the supporters to be on the lookout for those who’d use their movement as “cover”, and the proposal can be debated and argued – but it was not the OP that laid general accusations of bigotry. This attitude is the fault of the Democrats not the Republicans. When you compare your opponents constantly to fascists and say they are racists and bigot, some people are not going to realize that is just campaign talk and actually believe it. These people are going to be scared that what the Democrats tried to use to scare them into voting is actually true. So the idea that we got these people scared and now it is someone else’s responsibility to calm them down is irresponsible. The OP is just insulting. We live in a country where Obama was elected twice and there were no riots, yet the day after Trump is elected demonstrators are committing arson and vandalism in the streets. Yet, somehow it is conservatives who need to be alert for dark elements. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/87 "2016-11-10T14:43:16Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The OP is just insulting. We live in a country where Obama was elected twice and there were no riots, yet the day after Trump is elected demonstrators are committing arson and vandalism in the streets. Yet, somehow it is conservatives who need to be alert for dark elements. Please feel free to direct any similar concerns at liberals if you wish. That’s certainly a reasonable conversation to have. And feel free to ignore my plea if you have zero concern for white supremacism among Trump supporters. I hope you’re right that there is no significant element of white supremacism among any significant number of Trump supporters, and I hope my fears are unwarranted. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/88 "2016-11-10T14:51:59Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I think there are several parts to this. > > [ul] > [li]Some people who most strongly support things like gay marriage have a worldview in which they see racism, sexism, and homophobia as being extremely strong and pervasive forces in society, and this makes them more inclined to see this qualities in those who they oppose.[/li][li]People have a tendency to find arguments in favor of their own positions extremely compelling and convincing, and the opposite for positions they oppose. This makes them predisposed to assume that people holding alternative positions are motivated by evil.[/li][li]In arguments, it’s easier to “win” the argument against racism, sexism and homophobia then to win against logical arguments.[/li][li]Lastly, it’s a way for SJWs to feel superior, and acquire some cheap grace.[/li][/ul] More than that, I think the thing that the SDMB (and left-leaning Democrats in general) overlook or don’t understand is that there’s kind of a hierarchy of sins & bad behaviors in most people’s minds, and that hierarchy is NOT the same for everyone. And everyone’s tolerance for various things on that hierarchy is different as a result. For example, on here, describing someone as a racist or bigot is close to the worst thing you can say about someone. Calling them a liar or dishonest isn’t considered nearly such a horrible thing. Put differently, someone coming into a thread and referring to “niggers” instead of blacks or african-americans would be far more vilified than someone who came in and just lied outright. But out in the wider world, that’s not necessarily so. A whole lot of people hold to the idea that being dishonest is a far greater failing than being racist, and are more willing to tolerate casual racism than they are what they perceive as dishonesty. Their conception of what’s WRONG is different- to them, lying and being dishonest, especially in positions of public trust is far worse than any racism shy of a candidate wearing their KKK hoods to their victory ball. It’s not that they support racism, it’s that they call people out for different things. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/89 "2016-11-10T14:52:10Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The OP is just insulting. We live in a country where Obama was elected twice and there were no riots, yet the day after Trump is elected demonstrators are committing arson and vandalism in the streets. Yet, somehow it is conservatives who need to be alert for dark elements. I’m pretty sure it isn’t the Democrats who were spraypainting swastikas and “Make America White Again” graffiti yesterday. It isn’t Democrats who are openly subjecting minority friends of mine to bigoted abuse, nor are they the ones telling a friend of my wife that it’s now okay to shout at women walking by about “grabbing their pussy” because “This is America!”. This shit is happening. It’s a very small minority but it’s a very nasty one, and one that now feels that all those nasty views have just been legitimized. The OP is right to be concerned, and the people those views are aimed at are right to be wary. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/90 "2016-11-10T14:55:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And feel free to ignore my plea if you have zero concern for white supremacism among Trump supporters. I hope you’re right that there is no significant element of white supremacism among any significant number of Trump supporters, and I hope my fears are unwarranted. They are. They’re about as unwarranted as fears about lizard people so don’t worry. 🙂 While most white supremacists favored Trump, it’s a fallacy to think that it means that most people who favored Trump were white supremacists. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/91 "2016-11-10T15:03:04Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > They are. They’re about as unwarranted as fears about lizard people so don’t worry. 🙂 > > While most white supremacists favored Trump, it’s a fallacy to think that it means that most people who favored Trump were white supremacists. Where did I say that most people who favored Trump were white supremacists? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/92 "2016-11-10T15:10:43Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > [This now infamous example](http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-bush-transcript-20161007-snap-htmlstory.html) doesn’t really involve expanding anyone’s traditional definition of misogyny: > > I remember hearing an apology that minimized this as “locker room” talk, but not a single word was uttered about the brazen arrogance and entitlement to treat women however he wanted whenever he wanted. > > Trump also has a long history of [misogynistic comments](http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/08/politics/trump-on-howard-stern/) with Howard Stern that are a lot more comparable to locker room talk than the 2005 tape. It does involve expanding mine. I think of [misogyny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny) as someone who has a dislike for or contemptuous view of women. In Trump’s case he’s just a crude self-entitled jerk who likes sex and when he sees someone whom he’s attracted to he tries to get some. If he saw something a man had that he wanted he would try to get some of that too - or if he was gay he might try grabbing men’s crotches - and it wouldn’t make him a misandrist. But it just happens to be that women have a lot of what he want, and his position as billionaire TV star gave him opportunities in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/93 "2016-11-10T15:12:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It does involve expanding mine. > > I think of [misogyny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny) as someone who has a dislike for or contemptuous view of women. In Trump’s case he’s just a crude self-entitled jerk who likes sex and when he sees someone whom he’s attracted to he tries to get some. > > If he saw something a man had that he wanted he would try to get some of that too - or if he was gay he might try grabbing men’s crotches - and it wouldn’t make him a misandrist. But it just happens to be that women have a lot of what he want, and his position as billionaire TV star gave him opportunities in that direction. I think that sort of behavior demonstrates contempt, which fits the definition. I think the kind of entitlement that leads one to believe they can touch people in intimate ways without their consent (or the assumption that they all want such touching) can fairly be characterized as contempt. But that’s just arguing about word definitions. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/94 "2016-11-10T15:25:55Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > They are. They’re about as unwarranted as fears about lizard people so don’t worry. 🙂 > > While most white supremacists favored Trump, it’s a fallacy to think that it means that most people who favored Trump were white supremacists. The OP concern is that they will feel validated/enabled to act out more openly. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/95 "2016-11-10T15:27:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think that sort of behavior demonstrates contempt, which fits the definition. I think the kind of entitlement that leads one to believe they can touch people in intimate ways without their consent (or the assumption that they all want such touching) can fairly be characterized as contempt. > > But that’s just arguing about word definitions. But the point is that I don’t think he looks at women differently than men other than the fact that he happens to be sexually attracted to one and not the other. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/96 "2016-11-10T15:29:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But the point is that I don’t think he looks at women differently than men other than the fact that he happens to be sexually attracted to one and not the other. That’s possible, though even if that’s true that’s not an excuse, IMO. I think contempt can be wrapped up with sexual attraction. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/97 "2016-11-10T15:37:46Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The OP is just insulting. We live in a country where Obama was elected twice and there were no riots, yet the day after Trump is elected demonstrators are committing arson and vandalism in the streets. Not to mention [street mobs beating up suspected Trump voters](http://www.infowars.com/shock-video-black-mob-viciously-beats-white-trump-voter/). > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s possible, though even if that’s true that’s not an excuse, IMO. Of course not. But the issue here is what he thinks of women who he doesn’t happen to have a personal connection to and sexual attraction to. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/98 "2016-11-10T16:00:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not to mention [street mobs beating up suspected Trump voters](http://www.infowars.com/shock-video-black-mob-viciously-beats-white-trump-voter/). > > Of course not. But the issue here is what he thinks of women who he doesn’t happen to have a personal connection to and sexual attraction to. How do you know this wasn’t just a robbery? That was even mentioned in the article. Most seem more interested in what’s in the car than beating on the man. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/99 "2016-11-10T16:08:09Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How do you know this wasn’t just a robbery? That was even mentioned in the article. Most seem more interested in what’s in the car than beating on the man. The fact that people were yelling about the guy having voted for Trump is something of a hint. Very similar to people attacking black people while yelling racial slurs. But the truth is you never know for sure, and people can have a mixture of emotions and motivations. But further to puddleglum’s point, check out [some of the pictures of various anti-Trump riots](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3922098/The-backlash-begins-Disgruntled-anti-Trump-protesters-refuse-accept-election-result-gather-New-York-cities-country.html). Now imagine these things happening in the aftermath of an Obama election victory. How do you interpret them then? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197/100 "2016-11-10T16:14:54Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The fact that people were yelling about the guy having voted for Trump is something of a hint. Very similar to people attacking black people while yelling racial slurs. > > But the truth is you never know for sure, and people can have a mixture of emotions and motivations. > > But further to puddleglum’s point, check out [some of the pictures of various anti-Trump riots](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3922098/The-backlash-begins-Disgruntled-anti-Trump-protesters-refuse-accept-election-result-gather-New-York-cities-country.html). Now imagine these things happening in the aftermath of an Obama election victory. How do you interpret them then? Interesting how clear the audio is and yet, no traffic sounds, so sounds of the blows landing, the victim is strangely quiet yet the attackers are clear despite the distance. You linked to Infowars. That’s automatically suspect. You also seem to forget all the violence from Trump supporters towards protestors. You don’t have much outrage there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-plea-to-trump-supporters-and-conservatives-in-general/771197.md?page=6)