# A Pogrom in Amsterdam **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 8, 2024, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913 "2024-11-08T06:33:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/1 "2024-11-08T06:33:50Z")
> **[Violent Attacks in Amsterdam Driven by Antisemitism, Israel Says](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/08/world/europe/amsterdam-israel-soccer-fans-attacked.html)** > > The police said 57 people were arrested amid violence tied to a soccer game between Dutch and Israeli teams. Israel said it was sending planes to rescue its citizens. A massive mob attacked Israeli fans, random Jewish passerbys, and people they mistook for Jews on the streets of Amsterdam after an Israeli team played a game there. There are some brutal videos on X - I won’t link them here. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/2 "2024-11-08T06:46:48Z")
How does one mistake someone for Jewish? Bigots are really not very sharp. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/3 "2024-11-08T12:22:19Z")
Hamas is winning the war in Gaza. Not the Palestinians, they’re screwed. But Hamas is clearly doing really well. 😢 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/4 "2024-11-08T12:34:50Z")
This was indeed a vicious attack, totally on entirely innocent victims… [Oh, wait:](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/07/europe/israel-soccer-fans-attacked-amsterdam-intl-hnk/index.html) > Tensions had been rising in the lead up to Thursday night’s match with multiple social media videos showing Maccabi fans chanting anti-Arab slurs, praising Israeli military attacks in Gaza and yelling “f\*\*k the Arabs.” Fuck around and find out, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/5 "2024-11-08T12:46:39Z")
From the same article: > One video shows a man being kicked while he lies on the ground, while another video shows a man being hit by a man yelling “free Palestine” and “for the children, motherf\*\*\*er.” So yeah, this sure looks like an extension of the fight in Gaza. ---
**Author:** ![Mikkel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikkel/32/13151_2.png) [@Mikkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikkel)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/6 "2024-11-08T12:58:10Z")
Yes, pulling Palestinian flags down, singing “Gaza need no schools, they have no children.”. I guess some football fans will misbehave. A pity some Dutch/Palestinian people was provoked. For all I know it may even have been planned (from the Dutch side I mean). Eta I am Danish, not Dutch. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/7 "2024-11-08T13:25:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > Tensions had been rising in the lead up to Thursday night’s match with multiple social media videos showing Maccabi fans chanting anti-Arab slurs, praising Israeli military attacks in Gaza and yelling “f\*\*k the Arabs.” > > Fuck around and find out, I guess. I’m _sure_ that’d be your exact reaction if one of the morons pulling down posters of the kidnapping victims got his head bashed in. “Fuck around and find out” right? Or more accurately, if after some ProPal white college chick did that, a roving mob went around beating up anyone who looked brown. How did the guy who was crying “please, I’m not even Jewish” (video is on X, I’m not about to link it) “fuck around”, precisely? The fact is that this is precisely what a “Globalized Intifada” would look like. Jews getting mobbed in the streets, and people justifying it as the Jews “fucking around and finding out”. When people tell you who they are - believe them. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/8 "2024-11-08T13:34:00Z")
And this is why a lot of American Jews are really pissed at Israel. Because you are losing the propaganda war hard, and most of it is self-imposed. And we pay the price. And i get that Israel cares more about Israel than about the rest of us, and hell, maybe what Israel is doing will ultimately be good for Israel. At least, physically. I imagine the Israeli press censors the photos of mangled kids that the rest of the world sees every week. Kids who are too young to be guilty of anything more than being born in the wrong place and time. > [@Babale](#): > > How did the guy who was crying “please, I’m not even Jewish” (video is on X, I’m not about to link it) “fuck around”, precisely? There are always bystanders who get hurt. He’ll probably recover. Those kids won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/9 "2024-11-08T13:41:09Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And this is why a lot of American Jews are really pissed at Israel. Because you are losing the propaganda war hard, and most of it is self-imposed. And we pay the price. And i get that Israel cares more about Israel than about the rest of us, and hell, maybe what Israel is doing will ultimately be good for Israel. At least, physically. I’m sorry, but if you think that the people bashing Jewish heads in are doing it because \*they’re mad about the mistreatment of Palestinians", I have a bridge to sell you. They do these things because they fucking. Hate. Jews. Period. Oh, they’ll say ((Zionists)), because they’re capable of using find-and-replace to switch out Jew for Zionist if it makes their hatred more palatable. But they’d be waiting for a chance to bash your skull in regardless of anything that happens in Palestine. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I imagine the Israeli press censors the photos of mangled kids that the rest of the world sees every week. Kids who are too young to be guilty of anything more than being born in the wrong place and time. You imagine wrong. Do you think Israelis are unaware of the toll of this war? That’s what happens when you fight from behind civilians. Maybe the world should stop rewarding that strategy, but as long as the incentive structure makes that the best path forward, it’s what Hamas will continue to do. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/10 "2024-11-08T14:51:17Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > They do these things because they fucking. Hate. Jews. Period. The typical resident of Netherlands “hates Jews” the way they hate the Huns. Yeah, there’s some old history, but they didn’t think about it much or have any issues with random Jews or Hungarians until recently. What has changed? Of course, being upset about global events doesn’t excuse brutal violence elsewhere. The perpetrators are guilty of a heinous crime. I hope they are found, tried, and imprisoned. I hope their families feel shame. But yes, antisemitism is growing, around the world. And it’s because Hamas is winning. You are right, this is the edge of global intifada. It’s exactly what Hamas hoped for when they attacked a bunch of innocent Israelis. They _hoped_ that Israel would respond so brutally that it would turn the world against Israel, and against the Jews. So far, it’s going great. 😢 ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/11 "2024-11-08T14:59:19Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > The typical resident of Netherlands “hates Jews” the way they hate the Huns. Yeah, there’s some old history, but they didn’t think about it much or have any issues with random Jews or Hungarians until recently. What has changed? Judging by the videos, most of the attackers were immigrants to the Netherlands who brought their hatred of Jews with them, not native Dutch folk. Pretty easy to see “what changed”. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But yes, antisemitism is growing, around the world. And it’s because Hamas is winning. You are right, this is the edge of global intifada. It’s exactly what Hamas hoped for when they attacked a bunch of innocent Israelis. They _hoped_ that Israel would respond so brutally that it would turn the world against Israel, and against the Jews. So far, it’s going great. 😢 With all due respect, that’s utter bullshit. Do you want me to post videos of massive crowds in Australia chanting “Gas the Jews” in the days following Oct 7 before Israel even responded in Gaza? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/12 "2024-11-08T14:59:46Z")
> [@](#): > > A massive mob attacked Israeli fans, random Jewish passerbys, and people they mistook for Jews on the streets of Amsterdam after an Israeli team played a game there. So, collective punishment of Jews for bad behavior by some Israeli soccer fans? As far as Israeli press “censorship” of Gazan casualties, it’s [not very efficient](https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-771192). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/13 "2024-11-08T15:00:36Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m _sure_ that’d be your exact reaction if one of the morons pulling down posters of the kidnapping victims got his head bashed in. “Fuck around and find out” right? Pretty much, yes. > [@Babale](#): > > How did the guy who was crying “please, I’m not even Jewish” (video is on X, I’m not about to link it) “fuck around”, precisely? He … didn’t? I’m pretty sure I don’t need to explain the concept of “innocent bystander” to you. > [@Babale](#): > > people justifying it as the Jews “fucking around and finding out”. Who said anything about “the Jews”? Other than you, that is. I was referencing Maccabi fans. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/14 "2024-11-08T15:06:22Z")
Your basic reaction to the entire Gaza affair is Hamas fucked around and found out, and you are proud to proclaim Fuck No, never again, this is why we have Israel and an Israeli army. Which, ok fine, that is your take, and it is an understandable position from someone who values Israel’s place as a Jewish state. But then you act surprised when there are consequences, and violence begats violence. In the past, Israel has been much more successful presenting itself as defending its people against unreasonable terrorist attacks. However, as we have also just seen in the US election, presenting your side of the story through the tradition media is not necessarily the way to reach hearts and minds anymore. Opposing opinions, with video, now can go global in seconds without any restraint or curation. People on the fringes, all of the fringes, now see that there are others who think like them, and there is currently a feeling in some quarters that a certain level of violence is now acceptable. None of which I say to defend the violence in Amsterdam, nor antisemitism, nor a fear of “others” in general. All of which is horrible. And I fear that similar attacks are going to become more common in the US against many groups of people that are different from some expected norm. Which sucks, but as Puzzlegal just posted as I am writing, Israel has played completely into Hamas’ hands with its actions in Gaza, and many people across the globe are turning against Israel and Jews in general, people who previously were either neutral or didn’t care about Israel or Palestine. I’m not trying to argue that is good, or fair, or just - but it is a fact. So let me ask you this. You started this thread, what reaction are you hoping to get here? And what outcomes are you hoping for in Amsterdam and elsewhere after this incident? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/15 "2024-11-08T15:06:52Z")
Other reporting: > **[Israeli Maccabi Hooligans Clash With Pro-Palestine Ajax Supporters, Causing...](https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2024/11/366229/israeli-maccabi-hooligans-clash-with-pro-palestine-ajax-supporters-causing-chaos-in-amsterdam)** > > Travelling Maccabi hooligans clashed with pro-Palestine Ajax supporters in Amsterdam on Thursday night during the Europa League match between Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv. > **[Israeli football fans clash with protesters in Amsterdam](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/8/israeli-football-fans-clash-with-protesters-in-amsterdam)** > > Amsterdam city council member says ‘Maccabi hooligans’ instigated violence and attacked Palestinian supporters. From the latter: > The Israeli fans instigated the violence after arriving in the city and attacking Palestinian supporters before the match, an Amsterdam city council member said. > > “They began attacking houses of people in Amsterdam with Palestinian flags, so that’s actually where the violence started,” Councilman Jazie Veldhuyzen told Al Jazeera on Friday. > > “As a reaction, Amsterdammers mobilised themselves and countered the attacks that started on Wednesday by the Maccabi hooligans.” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/16 "2024-11-08T15:12:27Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Your basic reaction to the entire Gaza affair is Hamas fucked around and found out, and you are proud to proclaim Fuck No, never again, this is why we have Israel and an Israeli army. Which, ok fine, that is your take, and it is an understandable position from someone who values Israel’s place as a Jewish state. But then you act surprised when there are consequences, and violence begats violence. 1. if you’re comparing Hamas’ actions in Israel to Macabe fans’ actions in Amsterdam, you’ve seriously lost the plot. Now, if Macabe fans’ murdered 1,200 Dutch people, raping and torturing some of them in the process, and then kidnapped 200 Dutch people back to Israel - you’d have made a solid point. 2. what makes you think I am _surprised_ by this? Antisemitism is the least surprising thing in the world. That’s why Israel needs to exist as a strong nation that can defend the Jewish people. > [@WreckingCrew](#): > > So let me ask you this. You started this thread, what reaction are you hoping to get here? It’s a breaking news thread about a Pogrom in Amsterdam. I wasn’t “hoping for a reaction” 🙄 I do find it pretty disheartening that the reaction is justifying violence against Jews, but not surprising. Not in the least. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/17 "2024-11-08T15:13:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Other reporting: I’m glad to learn that the Russians and the Qataris thing the Jews started this and brought this on themselves. What do North Korean papers think? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/18 "2024-11-08T15:15:38Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > the Russians and the Qataris Well, them and > [@MrDibble](#): > > **an Amsterdam city council member** Although I was unaware the Russians operate a Morocco-centric news site out of the USA… Did you somehow misread Morocco as Moscow? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/19 "2024-11-08T15:25:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Although I was unaware the Russians operate a Morocco-centric news site out of the USA… > > Did you somehow misread Morocco as Mo0scow? Ahhh, that explains the open antisemitism even more, thanks for the correction. The Moroccans also blamed my grandpa for the pogroms that burned down his store, so that tracks. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/20 "2024-11-08T15:31:20Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > that explains the open antisemitism even more So, you can tell about someone’s bigotries _just_ by which country they come from? Interesting… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913.md?page=2)