# A Pogrom in Amsterdam **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 8, 2024, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913 "2024-11-08T06:33:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2024, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/141 "2024-11-12T17:20:46Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I believe the Turkish community in Germany mostly support Erdogan, and I don’t think he’s left. They’re also not voting AfD. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/142 "2024-11-12T18:00:20Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > They’re also not voting AfD Lol no. Shows how much worse things are going in Europe: a substantial number of Latinos voted for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/143 "2024-11-14T03:50:41Z")
> [@songsoflovetrouble](#): > > We apparently have different opinions on whether 13-year-old German citizens living in Berlin are “Israel” or are responsible for the “slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinians.” No, I don’t think we do. There are, of course, always antisemites looking for opportunities to flare up violence against Jews in general, irrespective of the victims’ connection or lack thereof to Israeli war crimes. Just as there are always Islamophobes looking for opportunities to flare up violence against Muslims in general, irrespective of the victims’ connection or lack thereof to Muslim-extremist terrorism. The difference is that when the former flareups happen, it’s front-page news and pinned messageboard threads about “A Pogrom” and “A Jew Hunt” and the lamentable relapse of European culture as a whole into antisemitism and so on and so forth. When the latter flareups happen, on the other hand, it’s just another day ending in “y”. Who even notices? It’s the blatant double standard that gets me down. Europeans attacking Jews is a matter for loudly expressed international horror; Europeans (or, for that matter, visiting Israeli soccer hooligans) attacking Muslims barely rates a mention. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/144 "2024-11-14T03:56:26Z")
Welp, if race riots targeting Jews are becoming more popular, i think it is a sign that Hamas is winning. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/145 "2024-11-14T06:46:05Z")
If you go out for a walk and people are being beaten on the street, I don’t think you need to wait around to first figure out what group(s) the victims belong to to know it is something fucked up that should never happen and to intervene (hopefully you are not the only sane man or woman around versus a mob of people?) to stop it. If it is just another day ending in “y” as far as the news is concerned, that is disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/146 "2024-11-14T08:08:04Z")
[Tonight (Nov 14) France will receive Israel to play Nation’s league at Stade de France.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/emmanuel-macron-to-attend-high-risk-france-israel-football-match) Since France, and especially Paris, traditionally is the place where people take to the streets for violent protests, I fear it will be a horrible evening. The article mentions that “Israel discourages wearing of ‘Jewish symbols’ abroad” but being a football fan means showing what team you’re rooting for. ---
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/147 "2024-11-14T10:54:07Z")
All but four of the 62 individuals arrested during the Jew Hunt [have been released](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-by-top-amsterdam-officials-says-10-of-those-arrested-last-thursday-are-israeli/). Of the four still in custody, three are charged with “attacking police.” Perhaps, someday, participating in a pogrom against Jews will be illegal in the Netherlands. Clearly that is not the case, de facto, right now. ---
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/148 "2024-11-14T10:58:50Z")
Of course, the [report from one account](https://x.com/VividProwess/status/1855657497392288242) that Dutch police actually participated in the Jew Hunt and are permitted to display “Free Palestine” slogans on their vehicles may provide some insight as to the total lack of interest in charging any participants with crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/149 "2024-11-14T13:42:28Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Since France, and especially Paris, traditionally is the place where people take to the streets for violent protests, I fear it will be a horrible evening. The article mentions that “Israel discourages wearing of ‘Jewish symbols’ abroad” but being a football fan means showing what team you’re rooting for. Considering how much unrest there’s been in France over the last few days, you are almost certainly right. Apparently there are hundreds of officers with drones and riot control gear on standby; hopefully they can control the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/150 "2024-11-14T13:50:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The difference is that when the former flareups happen, it’s front-page news and pinned messageboard threads about “A Pogrom” and “A Jew Hunt” and the lamentable relapse of European culture as a whole into antisemitism and so on and so forth. 1. That would be a very strange thing to lament considering how for once the antisemites in both the Amsterdam and Berlin cases weren’t right wing Europeans. The slide of right wing native Europeans into antisemitism is indeed lamentable, but if you lament it in response to groups of Islamic immigrants attacking Jews, that would be quite strange. 2. The claim is nonsense, anyways. This incident made headlines, but when a college professor brained a Jewish protestor with his megaphone and killed him a couple of towns over from where I am, that barely made it out of local news; that Palestinian kid who was murdered by his landlord otoh was a national story. Sometimes stories of anti-semitism are big news (like the Amsterdam incident); other times they aren’t (like the Berlin incident). The idea that stories of Islamophobia are systemically suppressed while stories of Anti-semitism are boosted is both untrue, and uncomfortably reminiscent of the idea that Jews control the media. If you think that Antisemitic hate crimes are in the news way too much for how few Jews there are, that’s because Antisemitism is one of the largest categories of motivators for hate crimes. Jews are 2% of the population, but we are targeted by 15% of all hate crimes and 68% of all religiously motivated hate crimes. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2024, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/151 "2024-11-15T14:58:04Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The difference is that when the former flareups happen, it’s front-page news and pinned messageboard threads about “A Pogrom” and “A Jew Hunt” and the lamentable relapse of European culture as a whole into antisemitism and so on and so forth. > > When the latter flareups happen, on the other hand, it’s just another day ending in “y”. Who even notices? > > It’s the blatant double standard that gets me down. Europeans attacking Jews is a matter for loudly expressed international horror; Europeans (or, for that matter, visiting Israeli soccer hooligans) attacking Muslims barely rates a mention. This may be what you see in the US, and I can’t say what it’s like in other European countries, but I think it’s a pretty unfair characterisation of media in the UK. We definitely do hear about attacks on Muslims, and there has been massively more discussion and action on Islamophobia than anti-Semitism for the last 20 years. (Understandably, since the former was far more of an issue until recently.) It’s also easy to see that the BBC and to a lesser extent other media go out of their way to avoid provoking Islamophobia when reporting Islamist terrorism and other crimes committed by Muslims. Plus, what gets pinned and discussed on this message board depends on what is of interest to participants, and there are a heck of a lot more Jews posting here than Muslims. I remember there was one poster of North African origins, who might have a different view, but she was banned ages ago. > [@Kimstu](#): > > There are, of course, always antisemites looking for opportunities to flare up violence against Jews in general, irrespective of the victims’ connection or lack thereof to Israeli war crimes. Just as there are always Islamophobes looking for opportunities to flare up violence against Muslims in general, irrespective of the victims’ connection or lack thereof to Muslim-extremist terrorism. More controversial, but I dislike this attitude that it’s just bad people and free floating hate. Muslims dislike the US and allies like the UK because of the various wars in the Middle East. They dislike Israel because of what Israel is doing in Gaza. Islamophobia is significantly the result of Islamic terrorism, as well as various incidents of unrest from immigrant groups that happen to be Muslim. None of that justifies attacking innocent people at all. But it’s silly to throw up our hands and say it makes no difference or is just exposing pre-existing prejudices. At least the football match in Paris seems to have gone past without too much trouble. ---
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2024, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/152 "2024-11-17T17:04:54Z")
A Dutch cabinet minister [has resigned](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/16/dutch-coalition-govt-survives-after-minister-quits-over-amsterdam-violence) because she has decided it is racist against the Moroccan Jew-hunters to discuss the fact that a Jew Hunt took place or the identity of who was doing the hunting. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/153 "2024-11-18T12:05:29Z")
That’s … _an_ interpretation, I guess. One not actually sustained by your own cite, but don’t let that stop you. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2024, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/154 "2024-11-18T22:54:42Z")
> [@songsoflovetrouble](#): > > A Dutch cabinet minister [has resigned](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/16/dutch-coalition-govt-survives-after-minister-quits-over-amsterdam-violence) because she has decided it is racist against the Moroccan Jew-hunters to discuss the fact that a Jew Hunt took place or the identity of who was doing the hunting. This article has slightly more info on what was said that she objected to. > **[Cabinet member quits over colleagues’ "racist" positions after Amsterdam riots](https://nltimes.nl/2024/11/15/cabinet-member-quits-colleagues-racist-positions-amsterdam-riots)** > > State Secretary Nora Achahbar will tender her resignation to Prime Minister Dick Schoof later on Friday due to dissatisfaction over how the Cabinet handled the riots in Amsterdam following last week's Europa League match between Ajax and Israeli club... ---
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/155 "2024-11-19T06:17:33Z")
The mayor of Amsterdam [apologized](https://www.timesofisrael.com/amsterdam-mayor-regrets-use-of-word-pogrom-to-describe-attacks-on-israelis/) for referring to the Jew Hunt as a “pogrom” and repeated the “clash between soccer fans” myth, on **November 18**. There’s really no pleading ignorance at this point - it’s just total capture of the law enforcement apparatus by Jew Hunters who will go unpunished. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/156 "2024-11-19T07:02:55Z")
Or, you know, she initially jumped too quickly to appease the people who eagerly weaponize their own victimhood, and then the actual facts on the ground came in from law enforcement and reliable eyewitnesses, including how [some of the initial reporting was just outright deliberate lying](https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-amsterdam-video-doesnt-show-attack-on-israelis/a-70763374). Potato/kartofl, I guess. Good on her for issuing an apology, I say. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/157 "2024-11-19T13:47:05Z")
Or, based on this quote from you source: > The exact identity of the men in the video remains unclear. A spokeswoman for the Amsterdam police said in an interview with DW that the video taken by the Dutch photographer is the subject of an ongoing investigation. At present, the police cannot provide any information about the identity of the perpetrators seen in the video. We know there was a lot of violence, but we don’t really know who did what to whom. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/158 "2024-11-19T13:51:47Z")
“We won’t comment on their identity” is not the same as “we don’t know anything about them”. Especially when both [that photographer](https://perma.cc/QX9C-Z55Z) and [a different one](https://archive.ph/XrYIO) _do_ know who they photographed. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/159 "2024-11-19T14:13:28Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Or, you know, she initially jumped too quickly to appease the people who eagerly weaponize their own victimhood What’s happening in incidents like this is far more a case of virulent bigots weaponizing resentment towards Israel in order to foment violence against Jews in general. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/160 "2024-11-19T16:22:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What’s happening in incidents like this is far more a case of virulent bigots weaponizing resentment towards Israel in order to foment violence against Jews in general. Incidents like Maccabi fans beating up Amsterdammers? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913.md?page=9)