# A Pogrom in Amsterdam **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 8, 2024, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913 "2024-11-08T06:33:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/161 "2024-11-19T17:32:34Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > We know there was a lot of violence, but we don’t really know who did what to whom. We may not know all the details about any arbitrarily selected video from the Netherlands in the past two weeks, but claiming that’s what this is about is a misdirection. We do know that: \*there was a planned “Jew Hunt,” so named because _that’s what the people who planned and executed it called it_ in their group text \*the planning began days _before_ the soccer game took place \*the people involved were Moroccan Muslim immigrants in Amsterdam \*gangs of Moroccans were stationed in advance at multiple chokepoints around Amsterdam in order to provide maximum coverage and were not responding to specific provocations in real-time \*every visible Jew and every person helping Jews within sight of the Jew Hunters was targeted, with no attempt at all made to limit it to either “Maccabi fans,” or “Israelis” let alone to “those soccer fans who specifically engaged in alleged uncouth acts” \*at least one unit of police, driving a police car with “Free Palestine” on it, participated in the violence directly. many other police disarmed Jews without protecting them or watched the events without interfering. \*every single person arrested in connection with the events of November 8-11 has been released from custody. \*with possibly _one_ exception, the only people arrested who have had criminal charges filed against them were Jews charged with “attacking police.” \*the Amsterdam Jew Hunt inspired copycat attempts in, at least, Antwerp, which succeeded in beating at least some Jews there and was shut down by a police raid on the organizers. There were also incidents in Stockholm and Paris that may have been connected. \*Supporters of the Jew Hunt have continued to push the myth that it was a spontaneous clash between factions of soccer fans with no one else involved, that discussing the role of Moroccan Muslims is “racist,” and that there is no problem with biased policing in the Netherlands, to the point that _any_ attempt whatsoever to acknowledge the reality of what happened draws the maximum possible protest. Continuing to assert the lies of November 8 about a “soccer riot” or trying to refocus on what some random single video does or does not show is avoiding the above. I do not see what is gained by being baited into the intentional deflections of people who, at this point, can only be logically inferred to be **supporters of the Jew Hunt**. ---
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/162 "2024-11-19T17:57:07Z")
I forgot to add that there was another copycat incident in Berlin, when a mob chased a 13-year-old youth soccer team with clubs and knives, following up on an incident where a person wearing the uniform of that team was asked “are you Jewish?” in a cafe and then punched in the face. The Berlin police chief at least [admits](https://www.newsweek.com/jewish-berlin-germany-antisemitism-lgbtq-arab-1988228) that the problem is Arab-controlled areas of Berlin that are no-go zones for Jews and gays - in Germany you can actually _say_ what the problem is, unlike in the Netherlands, though of course you still can’t actually do anything about it besides advise Jews (and gays) to stay away from the enclaves where the government has ceded control. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/163 "2024-11-19T19:56:11Z")
Pro-Palestinian protests crossing the line into harassment and violence against Jews are not uncommon. Whataboutism fail. > [@](#): > > “The violent clashes outside the Adas Torah synagogue in Los Angeles are appalling,” California Gov. Gavin Newsom [said on X](https://x.com/CAgovernor/status/1805107636368810029). “There is no excuse for targeting a house of worship. Such antisemitic hatred has no place in California.” > **[Pro-Palestinian protest outside LA synagogue criticized as ‘antisemitic’...](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/24/us/los-angeles-synagogue-palestinian-israeli-protest-violence/index.html)** > > A pro-Palestinian protest held outside a Los Angeles synagogue devolved into chaotic street violence with pro-Israel counter-protesters on Sunday in an incident that several officials, including President Joe Biden, criticized as antisemitic. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/164 "2024-11-19T20:18:40Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Pro-Palestinian protests crossing the line into harassment and violence against Jews are not uncommon. Neither is soccer hooligans beating up rivals. How the hell is that whataboutism, when it’s about the specific incident in question? Pointing at some other incident halfway across the world is the whataboutism. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/165 "2024-11-19T20:44:01Z")
You raised an issue of trying to “appease the people who eagerly weaponize their own victimhood” - which is uncomfortably close to the claim that them Jews are trying to milk the Holocaust for their own advantage.\* Recent events around the world, which are highly relevant, strongly suggest otherwise. \*hopefully I misunderstood you. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/166 "2024-11-19T23:21:17Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > You raised an issue of trying to “appease the people who eagerly weaponize their own victimhood” - which is uncomfortably close to the claim that them Jews are trying to milk the Holocaust for their own advantage.\* If by uncomfortably close you mean blatantly Antisemitic, I would agree with you. This comment by @MrDibble is no better than shouting “All Lives Matter” in response to “Black Lives Matter”. ---
**Author:** ![songsoflovetrouble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@songsoflovetrouble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsoflovetrouble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/167 "2024-11-20T01:07:59Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > If by uncomfortably close you mean blatantly Antisemitic, I would agree with you. This comment by @MrDibble is no better than shouting “All Lives Matter” in response to “Black Lives Matter”. A common theory says that the point of anti-Semitic speech isn’t to make an argument to convince anyone, but to show off to Jews that they can’t do anything about it. Every single person here knows who is being referred to when a cheerleader for the Jew Hunt talks about “the people who eagerly weaponize their own victimhood,” and every single person here also knows that the more performatively sensitive an online forum is about “racism,” the less likely it is that such sentiments will result in any kind of action - i.e., there will be no consequences for the person posting that. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/168 "2024-11-20T01:35:51Z")
> [@songsoflovetrouble](#): > > A common theory says that the point of anti-Semitic speech isn’t to make an argument to convince anyone, but to show off to Jews that they can’t do anything about it. I’m one Jew that’s sick of it. My grandparents were driven away from Europe due to pogroms. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/169 "2024-11-20T01:48:53Z")
Jews (= a very small minority, around 0,1% in the Netherlands) cannot do anything about anti-Semitic speech to the extent that the general population is willing to tolerate that sort of thing, which I expect is more than zero. As for the OP incident, with so many different kinds of bullshit about it in the media, at this point I have no idea what, exactly, even happened there. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/170 "2024-11-20T04:42:24Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > them Jews are trying to milk the Holocaust for their own advantage. I wasn’t talking about the Holocaust, I was talking about soccer hooligans getting beaten up for their own (anti-Palestinian) hooliganism, then turning around and claiming it was antisemitism all along. Witnesses on the ground are clear that the Maccabi fans started the actual violence, never mind what social media posts from a week before say (it’s not like Maccabi fans weren’t posting shit weeks before either) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/171 "2024-11-20T04:55:11Z")
If you’re so sure it’s antisemitic, feel free to report me for it, because I’m damn sure blatantly antisemitic posts are not allowed here. Or you’re just weaponizing the charge reflexively at any anti-Israel, or in this case anti-hooligan, posting, without any actual substance. It has become quite the fashion lately. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/172 "2024-11-20T05:12:05Z")
Moderating: This thread is understandably heated, and there are some concerns we need to sort out. Pending further moderator guidance, I’m closing it for now. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/173 "2024-11-20T05:12:16Z")
Closed on November 20, 2024, 5:12am UTC ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913/174 "2024-11-20T16:21:11Z")
**Moderating:** Having reviewed this entire thread, it is clear that the topic is triggering a lot of strong emotions, and as a result, many participants in this thread are reacting in ways that are not appropriate for MPSIMS. You are free to discuss almost any topic here on the SDMB, but we do require that you do so in a reasonably civil manner. Rather than handing out a bunch of warnings for personal attacks and jerkish behavior, I think it is best if we leave this thread closed. Those who wish to discuss this topic further are encouraged to start a new thread in the Pit, which is the proper forum for such heated discussions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-pogrom-in-amsterdam/1009913.md?page=8)